Appeal Play

[gv59]

What is the proper way to appeal this?

OBR ......bases loaded, 2 outs bottom of 7th (last inning) score tied . BR hits one in the gap R3 scores but BR misses first as he rounded it to go to second, BR half way to second goes to join his team for the celebration. As he is running to celebrate the 1st base coach is yelling at BR that he missed first and return... BR never retouches first. D coach hearing the 1st base coach calls "TIME" and goes to the UIC stating the runner missed first. Since time was called and the game was over what is the proper way to appeal the missed base? How do you put the ball back in play if the game is technically over to make this appeal?

[widac]

What is the proper way to appeal this?

OBR ......bases loaded, 2 outs bottom of 7th (last inning) score tied . BR hits one in the gap R3 scores but BR misses first as he rounded it to go to second, BR half way to second goes to join his team for the celebration. As he is running to celebrate the 1st base coach is yelling at BR that he missed first and return... BR never retouches first. D coach hearing the 1st base coach calls "TIME" and goes to the UIC stating the runner missed first. Since time was called and the game was over what is the proper way to appeal the missed base? How do you put the ball back in play if the game is technically over to make this appeal?

I don't know the answer. Can you tell me if this happened or is it hypothetical?

[gv59]

It happened to a partner of mind who called me and asked for my ruling. He told me that he ruled the BR out for abandonment. I told him that BR is not out for abandonment because R3 scored to end the game, the only way BR is out is to make a proper appeal that BR missed first but since D coach call time, I didn't know how to put the ball back in play (live ball) to make the appeal

[mstaylor]

If the defense makes it known that they want to appeal, then get the defense in place, make the ball live and let them appeal. If you uphold the appeal then it's going to the eighth. Remember in this case, you do not need a batter.

[Ump29]

In actual fact the DC cannot call time - only the umpires. That being said . if the umpires did call time they can then call time back in as per mstaylor.

[gv59]

The DC requested time and the UIC granted it... I knew the DC had the right to appeal as long as he had a defensive player still on the field of play, but didn't know how to put the ball in play without the batter in place... thanks

[PeteBooth]

If the defense makes it known that they want to appeal, then get the defense in place, make the ball live and let them appeal. If you uphold the appeal then it's going to the eighth. Remember in this case, you do not need a batter.

Michael UNLESS B1 (who missed first base) enetered the dugout (in which case he cannot come back out again) or TOUCHED second base and then left to celebrate, he is NOT technically out yet.

Before, we put the ball into play again, the offense has the right to put their runners back on their respective bases, so the point would end up being moot UNLESS as mentioned B1 after missing first base TOUCHED second base starting celebrating and then the DM requested TIME.

We cannot put the ball back into the play again for the SOLE purpose of making an appeal. If we make the ball live the offense has the right to send up a batter and also put the runners back on base again. Therefore, unless B1 was already on second base before he started celebrating the point is moot.

The main problem is that the DM should have appealed BEFORE requesting TIME. Once he requested TIME for all practical purposes the appeal is moot because B1 would simply go back to first base where he would be standing on the base "his last time by"

Pete Booth

[Mr Umpire]

Michael UNLESS B1 (who missed first base) enetered the dugout (in which case he cannot come back out again) or TOUCHED second base and then left to celebrate, he is NOT technically out yet.

Pete Booth

Actually, the BR can be called out as soon as he makes no more effort to touch the next base. As soon as he starts toward HP or his dugout and has left the base path, he can then be called out. So, he will not be allowed back on the field to retouch 1B. And, that is covered in the 2007 MLBUM with hitting a homerun scenario.

And, as for the DC calling "Time", can he call time when the game is technically over? All he has to do is leave at least one player on the field and get them to appeal the miss. Correct? So, him calling "Time" means nothing so the umpire doesn't have to put the ball back in play because it wasn't dead in the first place, assuming "Time" cannot be called when the game is technically over.

[mstaylor]

Michael UNLESS B1 (who missed first base) enetered the dugout (in which case he cannot come back out again) or TOUCHED second base and then left to celebrate, he is NOT technically out yet.

Before, we put the ball into play again, the offense has the right to put their runners back on their respective bases, so the point would end up being moot UNLESS as mentioned B1 after missing first base TOUCHED second base starting celebrating and then the DM requested TIME.

We cannot put the ball back into the play again for the SOLE purpose of making an appeal. If we make the ball live the offense has the right to send up a batter and also put the runners back on base again. Therefore, unless B1 was already on second base before he started celebrating the point is moot.

The main problem is that the DM should have appealed BEFORE requesting TIME. Once he requested TIME for all practical purposes the appeal is moot because B1 would simply go back to first base where he would be standing on the base "his last time by"

Pete Booth

That's not true Pete. If you have an inning ending or game ending play, you don't need to put the offensive players back on base.

From the MLBUM:

(7) All fielders other than the catcher must be in fair territory to start an appeal play after "Time"

has been called. If a fielder (other than the catcher) is in foul territory, the umpire should not

put the ball in play. If the umpire inadvertently does so, there is no penalty (specifically, this

is not a balk), nor would such action nullify a subsequent appeal attempt on the same runner

once the ball is properly put back in play. A fielder may go onto foul territory to back up an

appeal play after the ball has been put in play.

[PeteBooth]

That's not true Pete. If you have an inning ending or game ending play, you don't need to put the offensive players back on base.

From the MLBUM:

(7) All fielders other than the catcher must be in fair territory to start an appeal play after "Time"

has been called. If a fielder (other than the catcher) is in foul territory, the umpire should not

put the ball in play. If the umpire inadvertently does so, there is no penalty (specifically, this

is not a balk), nor would such action nullify a subsequent appeal attempt on the same runner

once the ball is properly put back in play. A fielder may go onto foul territory to back up an

appeal play after the ball has been put in play.

Michael I do not think the aforementioned "covers it" The MLBUM which you quoted simply states when the Defense CAN START the appeal not anything about the offense.

FWIW I E-mailed Rick this exact question and hopfeully he will respond and I will post his answer.

Pete Booth

[PeteBooth]

That's not true Pete. If you have an inning ending or game ending play, you don't need to put the offensive players back on base.

Michael you are correct

here is Rick's response

bases loaded, 2 outs bottom of 7th (last inning) score tied . BR hits one in the gap R3 scores but BR misses first as he rounded it to go to second, BR half way to second goes to join his team for the celebration. As he is running to celebrate the 1st base coach is yelling at BR that he missed first and return... BR never retouches first. D coach hearing the 1st base coach calls "TIME" and goes to the UIC stating the runner missed first. Since time was called and the game was over what is the proper way to appeal the missed base?

Pete,

I would not let the BR return to first; he abandoned his effort to run the bases and is out. Run scores on time play. Preventative umpiring would dictate that there is no need to grant time to the defensive coach; just tell them to go ahead and appeal. If time was granted, they will have to put it in play and appeal.

Hope that helps,

Rick R.

Pete Booth

[Umpire in Chief]

Great job Pete getting a definitive source. I think we all learned something here. I know I did.

[catoblue]

WOW... I actually came up with the same ruling where the run stands on a timing play. Run scores - Game over. If defense wants to appeal, let them then it's game over.

[mstaylor]

WOW... I actually came up with the same ruling where the run stands on a timing play. Run scores - Game over. If defense wants to appeal, let them then it's game over.

Did you read the quote Pete got from RR? It says let them appeal and disallow the run.

[widac]

Did you read the quote Pete got from RR? It says let them appeal and disallow the run.

I read it as the run scores. Who is RR by the way?

[Majordave]

Rick Roder. Co-Author and current updates author of the Jaksa/Roder Manual-Rules of Professional Baseball Casebook.

www.rulesofbaseball.com

[Mr Umpire]

The run can't score. This is an appeal of a missed force play. BR was forced to touch 1B. This is the Fourth Out Appeal. Run scored on the timing of the play. But, when the appeal is upheld, the run is not allowed due to the Fourth Out being a force play. The inning isn't over until all defensive players have left the field.

Why should the end of the game be any different than the 1st inning on this? Just b/c it is the game winning run and not the lead taking run. The game is NOT over until the umpires have walked off the field and called ball game. And, that is just for reasons like this. The game is not over until all potential plays have finished and an appeal is a potential play. The out is still viable and affects the game's outcome.

[widac]

The run can't score. This is an appeal of a missed force play. BR was forced to touch 1B. This is the Fourth Out Appeal. Run scored on the timing of the play. But, when the appeal is upheld, the run is not allowed due to the Fourth Out being a force play. The inning isn't over until all defensive players have left the field.

Why should the end of the game be any different than the 1st inning on this? Just b/c it is the game winning run and not the lead taking run. The game is NOT over until the umpires have walked off the field and called ball game. And, that is just for reasons like this. The game is not over until all potential plays have finished and an appeal is a potential play. The out is still viable and affects the game's outcome.

I think it would be the 3rd out.

[Mr Umpire]

The 3rd out was called when he stopped running the bases.

[widac]

The 3rd out was called when he stopped running the bases.

You're going to get 2 outs on the same runner?

[Mr Umpire]

It happens. You tag BR out at 2B after a run scores. Then, appeal he missed 1B and uphold it. Run doesn't count and it is the same runner out twice. 4.09 comment A.R. covers if BR doesn't touch 1B. Although, it doesn't say anything about appealing a runner who is already out for some other reason.

There is wording about appeals in the OBR allowing the defense to take the out which gives it the most advantage as well for the apparent "Fourth out". Thus, calling the BR out for missing 1B is the most advantageous out for the defense.

Be interested though if there is a casebook play or example of real play to the contrary.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Mr Umpire

[th3]

could the defense still appeal the missed based at 1st for a 4th out force out (out on br before reaching 1st actually) and nullify the run?

[th3]

sory...didnt read down any further before i posted my respnce

[Don]

Michael you are correct

here is Rick's response

Pete Booth

Nice, except calling the BR out for missing 1B is not a time play, it can be done anytime the ball is live. No run can score when BR is called out before reaching 1B legally. So back to the problem. If R1 goes in the dugout he can not return for a live ball appeal. If called out for abandonement and advantageous 4th out can still be called on the appeal. DC should not have called time, he should have just encouraged the players to throw the ball to 1B for live ball appeal.