softball appeal

[Guest thomas]

There are two outs, runner on third.  Humpback liner hit to SS.  Base umpire calls OUT.  SS puts ball in circle, defensive team runs off.  Batter stops running retreats to dugout.  

Coach appeals the catch and the homeplate umpire rules a trap.  Eventually the batter is put on first base and the runner on third (tying run) is put back on third. 

1. Can you even appeal this call? 

2. Assuming you can, is the batter out for not running to first?  

Seems to me you cannot penalize either player for not completing the play after OUT was called.    

[Rich Ives]

28 minutes ago, Guest thomas said:

There are two outs, runner on third.  Humpback liner hit to SS.  Base umpire calls OUT.  SS puts ball in circle, defensive team runs off.  Batter stops running retreats to dugout.  

Coach appeals the catch and the homeplate umpire rules a trap.  Eventually the batter is put on first base and the runner on third (tying run) is put back on third. 

1. Can you even appeal this call?  YES.

2. Assuming you can, is the batter out for not running to first?  NO.

Seems to me you cannot penalize either player for not completing the play after OUT was called.    CORRECT.

 

[MT73]

The PU had no business ruling it a trap--after the BU made his call that is-- unless the BU asked for help.

And if this did happen then the BU should have changed his call.

Even so if I had been the PU I would have stuck with the original call.

[noumpere]

I am a little surprised that more softball umpires haven't answered this.  I've stayed away because I don't work it.

 

But, NCAA baseball specifically defines that a "catch" in the infield cannot be changed to a "no catch."  I would apply that at all levels of baseball (and if I was forced to work a softball game with no rules training, I'd apply it there, too.)

[Guest Adam]

Personally i believe that if the PU clearly see's the play and see's it as a trap , should then immediately reverse the call while the play is happening. If the players are already trotting off then its too late in my opinion.

[beerguy55]

52 minutes ago, Guest Adam said:

Personally i believe that if the PU clearly see's the play and see's it as a trap , should then immediately reverse the call while the play is happening. If the players are already trotting off then its too late in my opinion.

In softball at least, this would depend on which ump has jurisdiction on the call, and I'm pretty sure this one belongs to BU.  If the BU sees and makes the call the PU has no authority to overrule it.  If the BU had called a catch on a play not in his jurisdiction then the umpire who should own the call can overrule it.  (there are some calls, like an illegal pitch or leading off, or IFF, that any umpire can call)  If the BU sees a catch on a play in his jurisdiction, he calls it, and the PU lives with it.   The BU can ask for help after the play.   However, I am pretty sure in softball that, like a called foul ball, a called catch in the infield is a bell that can't be unrung.