iNFIELD-FLY RULE (2-19)

[Guest SHIVAS]

Section 1 DEAD BALL, ARTICLE 1 LETTER J,  states, "an infielder intentionally drops a fair fly, fair line drive or fair  bunt in flight with at least first base occupied and with less than 2 outs.

HOWEVER,

RULE 19 INFIELD FLY RULE: STATES, An infield fly is a fair fly(not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infiler with ordinary effort..........and provided the hit is made before two are out and at a time when first and second bases or all bases are occupied.

I see 4 contridictions here, PLEASE EXPLAIN

I use to have a good understanding of this???

[noumpere]

An "intentional drop" and an "infield fly" are different situations, so they have different requirements.  While both are designed to prevent a double play, they come into effect in different circumstances.

 

For example, with R1 only, if the infielder lets a fly ball hit the ground untouched, then the defense will still only get one out (usually -- as for all the plays here).  The infielder will pick up the ball and then throw to second fro the force,   BR will be safe at first.  So, this IS NOT an infield fly situation. The defense will only get two outs on this type of play if there are at least two forced runners -- so that's what the infield fly rule requires.

 

But, if it's a line drive with R1 only, then the defense can guide the ball to the ground and still have time to get R1 at second and BR at first.  So, the intentionally dropped ball rule IS in effect.

[stkjock]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

An "intentional drop" and an "infield fly" are different situations, so they have different requirements.  While both are designed to prevent a double play, they come into effect in different circumstances.

 

For example, with R1 only, if the infielder lets a fly ball hit the ground untouched, then the defense will still only get one out (usually -- as for all the plays here).  The infielder will pick up the ball and then throw to second fro the force,   BR will be safe at first.  So, this IS NOT an infield fly situation. The defense will only get two outs on this type of play if there are at least two forced runners -- so that's what the infield fly rule requires.

 

But, if it's a line drive with R1 only, then the defense can guide the ball to the ground and still have time to get R1 at second and BR at first.  So, the intentionally dropped ball rule IS in effect.

would it make sense to clarity that an "intentional drop" is not the same as  the fielder intentionally letting the ball go uncaught and fielding the bounce?

 

like this play last year:

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/94788780/v1207038383/nlcs-gm2-baez-starts-headsup-double-play-in-6th/?query=baez+heads+up

[beerguy55]

I'm not sure I see the contradictions you see - these are two different situations, and so the differences are highlighted/documented to show how they are different scenarios.

In an IFF, the batter is automatically out, and should be declared out some point before the ball touches anything - it doesn't matter if the ball is dropped or not, intentional or not, touches an fielder or not...the ball is also live, and runners advance at their own peril.

In the intentional drop situation, the batter is declared out after the fielder has made the act of intentionally dropping the ball (which is not the same as letting the ball fall to the ground - the fielder must touch the ball to "drop" it).   The rule is there to just clean up a few possible cheap double play scenarios that the IFF rule doesn't address.  By rule, the fielder could let the ball hit the ground before touching it, and attempt to get the double play...provided the IFF provisions don't apply.

 

The only real point of confusion between the two rules as written could be, if an IFF is declared, and the fielder intentionally drops the ball, is it a dead ball?

[BretMan]

The infield fly takes precedence. So, if an infield fly is declared, the intentional drop rule does not apply.

Reasoning: Once the batter is called out from the infield fly, there's no (rules based) advantage to dropping the ball. With the batter already being out, there are no force outs available at any base.

Now, somebody might think they have to run, even when they don't, and possibly make another out that way. But that's not a "rule based" reason to run. It's just ignorance and that's on them!

[mw94]

13 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

I'm not sure I see the contradictions you see - these are two different situations, and so the differences are highlighted/documented to show how they are different scenarios.

In an IFF, the batter is automatically out, and should be declared out some point before the ball touches anything - it doesn't matter if the ball is dropped or not, intentional or not, touches an fielder or not...the ball is also live, and runners advance at their own peril.

In the intentional drop situation, the batter is declared out after the fielder has made the act of intentionally dropping the ball (which is not the same as letting the ball fall to the ground - the fielder must touch the ball to "drop" it).   The rule is there to just clean up a few possible cheap double play scenarios that the IFF rule doesn't address.  By rule, the fielder could let the ball hit the ground before touching it, and attempt to get the double play...provided the IFF provisions don't apply.

 

The only real point of confusion between the two rules as written could be, if an IFF is declared, and the fielder intentionally drops the ball, is it a dead ball?

No, ball is  alive 

[Radie 88]

I didn't know Apple was writing baseball rulebooks nowadays. 

[beerguy55]

15 minutes ago, mw94 said:

No, ball is  alive 

My bad.  I know that.  My point was, if you read the rule exactly as written in OP, in a bubble, that point can be missed or misunderstood.

I know that OBR, in the definition of an IFF, makes it very clear that the IFF rule takes precedence over the intentional drop rule - I'm assuming that is also clear in other rule sets.