Triple play by White Sox

[Gfoley4]

http://mediadownloads.mlb.com/mlbam/mp4/2016/07/09/910181783/1468026680812/asset_1200K.mp4

 

Nice play by the shortstop to tag R2 then touch the base before throwing to first to get 3!

[maven]

http://m.mlb.com/video/v910181783

[stkjock]

R2 read that real poorly. 

[Jimurray]

11 hours ago, Gfoley4 said:

http://mediadownloads.mlb.com/mlbam/mp4/2016/07/09/910181783/1468026680812/asset_1200K.mp4

 

Nice play by the shortstop to tag R2 then touch the base before throwing to first to get 3!

Let's change the timing and have the foot hit the bag and the tag missing the runner. Can 2 runners be forced at the same base? Did R2 reinstate a force when he retreated to the outfield? I think MLB made a ruling concerning retreating for a play that happened at 3B a year or two ago.

[Man_In_Black]

2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Let's change the timing and have the foot hit the bag and the tag missing the runner. Can 2 runners be forced at the same base? Did R2 reinstate a force when he retreated to the outfield? I think MLB made a ruling concerning retreating for a play that happened at 3B a year or two ago.

If F6 had touched second base before putting the tag on R2, he would have effectively removed the force on R2 and would have been required to tag R2 to get him out (provided R2 was not in contact with the base). Since it looked as though R2 was on the base when tagged by F6, this would likely have resulted in an ordinary 6-3 DP.

Oh...almost forgot your other question. A force can only be in effect on an advancing runner. You are never "forced" to retreat.

[Jimurray]

46 minutes ago, Man_In_Black said:

If F6 had touched second base before putting the tag on R2, he would have effectively removed the force on R2 and would have been required to tag R2 to get him out (provided R2 was not in contact with the base). Since it looked as though R2 was on the base when tagged by F6, this would likely have resulted in an ordinary 6-3 DP.

Oh...almost forgot your other question. A force can only be in effect on an advancing runner. You are never "forced" to retreat.

But you can reinstate a force. Can you reinstate it as in the OP? If the avoidance of the tag took R2 toward RF or 1B (but not 3 ft.) would his previous force be reinstated even though another runner was also forced to that base:

"However, if
the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats
for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the
force play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the
defense tags the base to which he is forced;"

[Man_In_Black]

16 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

:"However, if
the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats
for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the
force play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the
defense tags the base to which he is forced;"

Well, if the baserunner is stupid enough to retreat from a base at which he was already safe (and none of the runners behind him have been put out in the meantime) then yes, the force would still technically be in effect. But again, he is considered an advancing runner (not a retreating one...because there's nowhere to retreat to). But, for example, if he is forced to third base, rounds it and dives back into third because a play is being made on him, he would have to be tagged, since he already acquired third and is not forced to advance to HP.

Hope that made sense.

[Jimurray]

3 minutes ago, Man_In_Black said:

Well, if the baserunner is stupid enough to retreat from a base at which he was already safe (and none of the runners behind him have been put out in the meantime) then yes, the force would still technically be in effect. But again, he is considered an advancing runner (not a retreating one...because there's nowhere to retreat to). But, for example, if he is forced to third base, rounds it and dives back into third because a play is being made on him, he would have to be tagged, since he already acquired third and is not forced to advance to HP.

Hope that made sense.

So if R2 avoided the tag attempt by backing up less than 3 feet toward RF or 1B, the F6 would have to go tag him to get the out.

[Man_In_Black]

Just now, Jimurray said:

So if R2 avoided the tag attempt by backing up less than 3 feet toward RF or 1B, the F6 would have to go tag him to get the out.

That's right.

The statement you referenced would only be relevant if R2 had advanced to third base and then for whatever reason made a move back towards second without any of the runners behind him having been put out. Then he would have been liable to be put out by simply stepping on third. But as soon as R1 is forced out at second, R2 may legally retreat there or attempt to advance to third, but he would then have to be tagged to be put out.

[noumpere]

Remember that you are "forced to LEAVE a base" -- and can be out by tagging the NEXT base.  R2 isn't forced (anymore) to leave second -- he can't be out by tagging second, no matter where he runs.

[Jimurray]

4 hours ago, noumpere said:

Remember that you are "forced to LEAVE a base" -- and can be out by tagging the NEXT base.  R2 isn't forced (anymore) to leave second -- he can't be out by tagging second, no matter where he runs.

I was thinking of a TWP which almost could have happened in the OP. Before F6 steps on 2B he has to choose to chase R2 who has retreated from 2B to avoid a tag or step on 2B. It would seem a triple play could have been avoided. Of course, that would involve R2 being smart enough, which has already been proven false.

[maven]

If R2 retreats behind 2B we could also consider him out of his base path, and handle it that way.

[Jimurray]

6 hours ago, maven said:

If R2 retreats behind 2B we could also consider him out of his base path, and handle it that way.

But you would need a tag attempt for that.

[noumpere]

7 hours ago, Jimurray said:

But you would need a tag attempt for that.

F6 was chasing him back to the base (iirc) -- that's enough of a tag attempt.

[stkjock]

you recall correctly, all the while with this glove extended,

[Larry in TN]

It looks like R2 was retreating because he thought the line drive was going to be caught in-flight.  By the time it wasn't he was already committed.