should i have ejected?

[tpatience]

This was a few days ago. I was U2 in a 4 man crew for a 9/10 little league all star tournament. Runner on first, 2 outs. Ground ball to the SS, and he bobbles it. He finally gets rid of the ball and throws it to 2b for the force. I punch out the runner and the coach goes crazy in the 3b coaches box. He is visibly upset. He walks across the diamond, stops in front of the mound and just stares at me. He yells across the diamond and says, "can you get any help on that"? He starts walking towards me and I meet him halfway. He again asks me if I can get help from U3. I say no, as he wouldn't have anything to help me with. He then says to U3, "can you overturn him"? Obviously, U3 says absolutely not. He walks away, still quite visibly angry. He yells, but not facing me, "you guys are killing me"! Should I have ejected right there?

[Stk004]

2 hours ago, tpatience said:

This was a few days ago. I was U2 in a 4 man crew for a 9/10 little league all star tournament. Runner on first, 2 outs. Ground ball to the SS, and he bobbles it. He finally gets rid of the ball and throws it to 2b for the force. I punch out the runner and the coach goes crazy in the 3b coaches box. He is visibly upset. He walks across the diamond, stops in front of the mound and just stares at me. He yells across the diamond and says, "can you get any help on that"? He starts walking towards me and I meet him halfway. He again asks me if I can get help from U3. I say no, as he wouldn't have anything to help me with. He then says to U3, "can you overturn him"? Obviously, U3 says absolutely not. He walks away, still quite visibly angry. He yells, but not facing me, "you guys are killing me"! Should I have ejected right there?

I'm not reading anything I would eject for, so I'm guessing this particular coach was quite loud and animated? The only thing that I can think of right now is if you felt like he was showing you up. 

[Man_In_Black]

5 hours ago, tpatience said:

He walks away, still quite visibly angry. He yells, but not facing me, "you guys are killing me"! Should I have ejected right there?

Naah...nothing really warranting ejection there. The coach was upset because he saw the call differently than you and it went against him. Let's not forget that a coach or player being upset with a judgment call is a fairly common thing in baseball. And there's a certain degree of latitude for them to express their discontent. As long as he doesn't get personal, physical or just refuses to let it go, let the guy blow off a little steam. Part of our job is accepting and dealing with the fact that coaches or players are not always going to agree with every call we make. It's baseball. As a well-trained umpire, you should be able to absorb a few negative comments without overreacting, as long as they don't cross the line.

"You guys are killing me!" is (to me) pretty harmless. I don't see it as a being personal, even though the word "you" was used. I think you exercised good judgment in just letting it go and not tossing him. I assume he gave you no further grief for the remainder of the game.

I remember seeing an ad in a local paper years ago from a county baseball and softball league looking to recruit new umpires. At the end of the ad was the following sentence: "Thin-skinned or overly sensitive personalities need not apply." Had to chuckle at that...but at least they were honest.

[umpire_scott]

I would not have ejected.  Just probably at that point would have said "We're moving on now coach".  Some message to let him know he needs to drop it as it's venturing into one of the P's (prolonged).

[Thawk]

16 hours ago, tpatience said:

This was a few days ago. I was U2 in a 4 man crew for a 9/10 little league all star tournament. Runner on first, 2 outs. Ground ball to the SS, and he bobbles it. He finally gets rid of the ball and throws it to 2b for the force. I punch out the runner and the coach goes crazy in the 3b coaches box. He is visibly upset. He walks across the diamond, stops in front of the mound and just stares at me. He yells across the diamond and says, "can you get any help on that"? He starts walking towards me and I meet him halfway. He again asks me if I can get help from U3. I say no, as he wouldn't have anything to help me with. He then says to U3, "can you overturn him"? Obviously, U3 says absolutely not. He walks away, still quite visibly angry. He yells, but not facing me, "you guys are killing me"! Should I have ejected right there?

Wouldn't even have said anything to him.  Let that one go.  If he comes up to you and politely and respectfully comes up and asks for you to check with your partners on that, I would politely oblige.  Placate the coach a little bit.  Consider it a show of goodwill, it'll go a long way.

[Richvee]

20 minutes ago, Thawk751 said:

Wouldn't even have said anything to him.  Let that one go.  If he comes up to you and politely and respectfully comes up and asks for you to check with your partners on that, I would politely oblige.  Placate the coach a little bit.  Consider it a show of goodwill, it'll go a long way.

It's a judgement call with no extenuating circumstances. No pulled foot he may have missed...nothing. Own that call. Next thing you know Coach will be asking U1 for help on a tag play at 3rd. Maybe he can get help from U2 on the outside pitch that just got called a strike by PU.

[kstrunk]

16 hours ago, Thawk751 said:

 If he comes up to you and politely and respectfully comes up and asks for you to check with your partners on that, I would politely oblige.  Placate the coach a little bit.

As umpires we need to own our responsibility to control the game. When we start allowing coaches to dictate which calls need a 2nd opinion, we've abdicated our responsibility and given it to the coaches. Furthermore, this is a pace of play issue, which is a big part of baseball at all levels right now. If umpires continue giving coaches the impression that it's ok to call time and ask the calling umpire to 'get help' every time the coach disagrees, we will SIGNIFICANTLY lengthen, rather than shorten, the span of our games. 

Indeed, there are times to ask partners if we missed something, but far fewer than what coaches desire. And that desire continues to grow it seems, and I believe umpires are at least in part, responsible for that because guys aren't shutting it down like the original poster did. For my part, I'm starting to think that as soon as we know a coach wants a 2nd opinion on a routine judgment call, we should direct him back to the dugout with a warning, i.e... "judgment call Bob, my call, we're not discussing it, let's play...", of course this after he's already voiced his opinion on the call. 

[Thawk]

It's pretty easy to figure out which coaches abused the privilege to come out and question calls.  Their attitude right from the start says it all.  If they've been barking about things from 1st pitch, then when they come out to ask me to get help, I politely tell them "my call coach".  If a coach has been quiet, and his comments about pitches, etc. have been to his players, and comes out being a calm, respectful, and polite and asks me to check with my partner(s), then yes I'm gonna "get help".  What he doesn't hear in the huddle is me saying to my partner(s) is "I really don't need help on this one."  So in essence, I'm trying to keep things peaceful.  Again, if that coach starts to abuse the privilege, then I will nip it in the bud.  I also see this as a long term situation.  Even at the youth level, I'm gonna see these coaches for a few years.  If I leave a good impression in their mind-that I'm fair and respectful, and not being a hardass, then they walk into that game knowing they can just worry about their players, and let me worry about the calls on the field. 

[umpire_scott]

Just now, Thawk751 said:

It's pretty easy to figure out which coaches abused the privilege to come out and question calls.  Their attitude right from the start says it all.  If they've been barking about things from 1st pitch, then when they come out to ask me to get help, I politely tell them "my call coach".  If a coach has been quiet, and his comments about pitches, etc. have been to his players, and comes out being a calm, respectful, and polite and asks me to check with my partner(s), then yes I'm gonna "get help".  What he doesn't hear in the huddle is me saying to my partner(s) is "I really don't need help on this one."  So in essence, I'm trying to keep things peaceful.  Again, if that coach starts to abuse the privilege, then I will nip it in the bud.  I also see this as a long term situation.  Even at the youth level, I'm gonna see these coaches for a few years.  If I leave a good impression in their mind-that I'm fair and respectful, and not being a hardass, then they walk into that game knowing they can just worry about their players, and let me worry about the calls on the field. 

One thing to consider when getting help for the purpose of appeasing a coach is the precedent it sets for future umpires.  Coaches across the board begin to expect it and then it is frowned upon when it is not offered.  Coaches know or should know that a judgement call is not open to "getting help" for the most part.  The only exceptions is when the judgement has been impacted by something and the person making the call is truly unsure of his call.  If you had the look and you had the call you should tell that to the coach. This is something I think is becoming a problem.  I have had two different assigners in two different states request that we discuss any calls that the coaches ask us to get help on so that the coaches don't think we are being stubborn.  I don't like the direction that is taking things.  Obviously this is mostly at tournaments and lower level youth ball.  High school and up integrity is valued over appeasement. 

[grayhawk]

@tpatience, great job keeping calm and standing your ground.  I agree with others that nothing was said to warrant an ejection.

[Replacematt]

5 hours ago, Thawk751 said:

It's pretty easy to figure out which coaches abused the privilege to come out and question calls.  Their attitude right from the start says it all.  If they've been barking about things from 1st pitch, then when they come out to ask me to get help, I politely tell them "my call coach".  If a coach has been quiet, and his comments about pitches, etc. have been to his players, and comes out being a calm, respectful, and polite and asks me to check with my partner(s), then yes I'm gonna "get help".  What he doesn't hear in the huddle is me saying to my partner(s) is "I really don't need help on this one."  So in essence, I'm trying to keep things peaceful.  Again, if that coach starts to abuse the privilege, then I will nip it in the bud.  I also see this as a long term situation.  Even at the youth level, I'm gonna see these coaches for a few years.  If I leave a good impression in their mind-that I'm fair and respectful, and not being a hardass, then they walk into that game knowing they can just worry about their players, and let me worry about the calls on the field. 

Doing your job is not being a hardass. If these are truly calm, respectful, and polite, then they'll understand when you say "This is my call, and I had everything I need to make a decision." If you're going to your partners to "keep the peace," then you are worried that they aren't actually the reasonable people you hope they are.