Pick off or Balk?

[C12]

Oh boy, at the risk of getting skewered I'm gonna ask the balk question again.  I know its been covered, without a real consensus but I just need a clarification.  Situation is:

14u USSSA Tournament 60/90 OBR.

Game 1. Outs don't matter, runner on 1st. Pitcher throws to F3 who is NOT on the bag or holding the runner. The throw was to F3 and not the base. The throw was poor as F3 had to move to his right to catch the ball, and no play on runner even possible.  Umpires correctly call balk.

Game 2, this  time LHP, runner on 3rd w/ normal 3rd base lead. F5 not holding runner and about 20ft from runner and third base. On pitchers first movement, runner takes secondary lead and is now approx 30ft from F5. LHP throws to F5, R3 runs for home, F5 throws to F2 and runner easily tagged out.  No balk called. Umpires say they were making a play on the runner. and the throw was towards the bag. (F5 was in a line between F1 and 3rd base, but not on or near the bag).

My question is I get the no-balk call on throwing to an occupied base, but making a play on the runner? And is the making a play on a runner provision only applicable to 1st base? It seems other posts with this issue only cover 1st base.

 

[basejester]

OBR
8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when—

(b) The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first or third base and fails to
complete the throw;

2015 rule reference:  6.02 (a) (2)

PBUM 8.5

a) The pitcher shall be charged with a balk if, while contact with the rubber, he attempts a pickoff at first or third base and throws to the fielder who is either in front of or behind the base and obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner.  However, there is no violation if the pitcher throws the ball directly to first or third base in this situation.

 

[noumpere]

If F5 was moving toward third or toward R3 at the time of the throw (and not "in reaction to the throw") then it's legal in OBR.

 

And, I'm having a little trouble understanding the math.  If F5 is "between 3b and the rubber" and R3 is "30 feet from F5", that's way too big a lead.

 

 

[Ump29]

Should be a balk in both cases. See basejester's answer and quote of rule.

[C12]

And, I'm having a little trouble understanding the math.  If F5 is "between 3b and the rubber" and R3 is "30 feet from F5", that's way too big a lead.

Distance is approximation, and let me clarify. R3 is 30' from F5, not a 30' lead.  F5 is not on the base but on the infield.

[maven]

I'll answer with 2 easy steps.

1. Determine whether the applicable rule set has adopted OBR's rule that makes 3B the new 1B by prohibiting F1 from feinting to 3B; if not (and not all OBR-based codes have), throwing to F5 anywhere is legal (assuming R3).
2. If so, then apply the same criteria at 3B that you would apply at 1B — if you'd balk the move at 1B, then you should do the same at 3B.

[Richvee]

So F5 is playing off the bag, R3 has a huge lead. R3 takes off for home as F1 steps toward 3rd and hits F5 with a throw between the rubber and 3rd base....

That tells me F5 was moving well before the throw, and I've got them making a play on the runner. No balk.  

[C12]

So F5 is playing off the bag, R3 has a huge lead. R3 takes off for home as F1 steps toward 3rd and hits F5 with a throw between the rubber and 3rd base....

That tells me F5 was moving well before the throw, and I've got them making a play on the runner. No balk.  

I think you're reading more into this.  As @noumpere wrote, F5 reacted to the throw.

I wrote R3 takes secondary lead on F1s first move. F1 throws to F5 who was NOT moving towards either the bag or R3.  Upon seeing the throw to F5, R3 goes for home and is easily thrown out F5 to F2.  I think most posts agree this should have been a balk as no play was being made on the runner.

 

 

[Richvee]

I think you're reading more into this.  As @noumpere wrote, F5 reacted to the throw.

I wrote R3 takes secondary lead on F1s first move. F1 throws to F5 who was NOT moving towards either the bag or R3.  Upon seeing the throw to F5, R3 goes for home and is easily thrown out F5 to F2.  I think most posts agree this should have been a balk as no play was being made on the runner.

 

 

You were there, not me, so if you say F5 didn't move until F1 stepped towards 3rd, it's a balk. We all know this. However,

"F5 not holding runner and about 20ft from runner and third base.".... and then ...."(F5 was in a line between F1 and 3rd base, but not on or near the bag)."

For me, that's sounds like a long way to go and catch a ball after F1 had already stepped to 3rd to throw. The picture I get in my mind is an F5 moving towards the bag/R3 as F1 starts his move or else I don't see how F5 gets in a line between the rubber and 3rd.  But, Like I said, I wasn't there, I must have a distorted picture the play.

Plus, If F5 caught the ball in line between the rubber and 3rd, doesn't that  mean the throw was directly to the base?

a) The pitcher shall be charged with a balk if, while contact with the rubber, he attempts a pickoff at first or third base and throws to the fielder who is either in front of or behind the base and obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner.  However, there is no violation if the pitcher throws the ball directly to first or third base in this situation.