That's B%llSH*# Blue

RichMSN · September 15, 2015

Rich, if you truly believe this, I feel sorry for you.

Yes they are, I've been doing this since 1975, all levels above 16U and each and every coach I've met are rats. A lot of them a good guys, but they're all rats.

If that's how you feel, maybe after 40 years you should pack it in.

clasonater · September 15, 2015

How did you all deduce all this "bad game management" and "bad people skills" garbage from the original post. I do not think all coaches and players are rats. There are actually a lot that I respect very much. Trying your best as an umpire means that you are going to piss people off regardless of how much you respect them and they respect you. I do not give a SH*# that that kid wasnt a fan of me. In the end all you have is yourself and your partner, sometimes just yourself. If you have never had an ejectable moment with a catcher that you are most certainly not doing your job. Most coaches that are worth a damn respect umpires that have the huevos to carry themselves with respect and take action when needed without picking boogers. Where did all this "judging people" garbage come from also. Talk about reading too much into just a random run of the mill ejection with a couple of tongue and cheek thoughts. It says in the got damn rules that profanity is an ejectable offense. Obviously some on this thread think too much of their game management abilities and criticizing the integrity of other umpires they do not even know or have never seen call a pitch.

clasonater · September 15, 2015

Even if I had a good relationship with that catcher and he turned on me, pointed, and yelled profanity at me, I'd run him everyday of the week.

PonyUmpire · September 15, 2015

How did you all deduce all this "bad game management" and "bad people skills" garbage from the original post. I do not think all coaches and players are rats. There are actually a lot that I respect very much. Trying your best as an umpire means that you are going to piss people off regardless of how much you respect them and they respect you. I do not give a SH*# that that kid wasnt a fan of me. In the end all you have is yourself and your partner, sometimes just yourself. If you have never had an ejectable moment with a catcher that you are most certainly not doing your job. Most coaches that are worth a damn respect umpires that have the huevos to carry themselves with respect and take action when needed without picking boogers. Where did all this "judging people" garbage come from also. Talk about reading too much into just a random run of the mill ejection with a couple of tongue and cheek thoughts. It says in the got damn rules that profanity is an ejectable offense. Obviously some on this thread think too much of their game management abilities and criticizing the integrity of other umpires they do not even know or have never seen call a pitch.

Because "one of those days where you can tell the catcher hates your guts... and the feeling is mutual" is not a sentence that would leave the mouth of an umpire who truly understands game management (read: an umpire who's going to move up). Plain and simple. If you're regularly (or really at all) letting your emotions inform your interactions with game participants, you're already failing to do your job right. I'm sorry if that sounds like garbage to you

renegadewolf · September 15, 2015

*munch* *munch* Popcorn anyone?

327

lawump · September 15, 2015

I'd rather be asked back and have everyone say, "Oh good, it's THIS guy," when I walk onto the field rather than "Oh no, it's THIS guy."

It reads to me that you're seeking adoration from game participants; that you are hoping that you will be liked by the game participants. This is basically the worst reason to umpire. I personally can't imagine umpiring a game and thinking, "I hope I do good so that the team will want me back again." I don't give a sh!t whether the team(s) want me back or not. My duty is owed to the game itself, not the game participants.

With the exception of the occasional game participant who may have umpired in the past, game participants are universally unqualified to evaluate umpires. Most of them probably believe the false axiom, "a good umpire is one you never see," which, as Bruce Froemming said (to paraphrase), "was probably spoken by an umpire who was afraid to run/control a ball game." For example, one American Legion team this year complained about an umpire they had during a regional tournament game. They said and/or implied that he was "over his head," and "wasn't qualified to work a national American Legion tournament." The funny part was that that umpire had just umpired an NCAA Division 1 Super Regional two months prior. These coaches were/are absolutely clueless about what constitutes a good umpire that they should want to "ask back" to umpire their games. An umpire doesn't fall into an NCAA Division 1 Super Regional by accident. This team just didn't like the fact that this umpire didn't let them get away with any bullsh!t during their game.

Personally, the only thing I hope for is that when a member of my umpire association accepts a game on "Arbiter" and sees they have me as their partner, that member says to himself, "oh good, I have him as a partner." I don't give two cents what the team(s) think.

lawump · September 15, 2015

(even if you umpired a game every day, you wouldn't be working nearly as hard as even a high school JV player)?

That's the most ignorant thing I've seen written on this entire thread. It was not directed at me, but you just as easily could have made the same assumption (that a JV player works harder than me) about me.

Just for your edification (and I am but one poster on this site), in addition to working 51 NCAA games, 20+ American Legion and 10+ FED games this past year, I also have or will this year:

(1) Serve as the President and lead trainer of my high school association. I'm paid absolutely nothing for anything I do as President. In this role this past year I spent:

(a) 20-25 hours editing, narrating and producing an hour-long rules training film (in the style of the NCAA rules update videos)

(b) 20 hours (two 10-hour days) as the lead instructor of an on-field mechanics clinic that had attendees from throughout South Carolina. I spend upwards of 30-40 hours preparing for this clinic.

(c) 12 hours leading our weekly pre-season rules study classes. I spent at least 24 hours just preparing for those 12 hours (2 hours of preparation for 1 hour of instruction.)

(d) 10-15 hours during November and into December editing our association's umpire manual (200 pages). It took me over 100 hours to write that manual 10-years ago. Now I just edit and update it annually.

(e) 20 hours leading our monthly board of directors meetings. I spent, probably, 10-15 hours preparing for these meetings.

(f) 3 hours teaching a three-man mechanics clinic just prior to the start of the playoffs. I spent 1.5 hours preparing for this clinic.

(g) Countless hours communicating with association members (whether via telephone, text or email) about various issues they may have.

(2) Served as an instructor at two clinics run by my college association in another state. These clinics were Friday evening and all day Saturday and Sunday. So, again, 20-hours at each clinic (not including prep time).

(3) Serve as an assistant umpire supervisor at two weekend youth tournaments. Each tournament is 16-hours (back-to-back 8 hour days).

(4) Serve as a member of the NFHS baseball rules committee (that edits, writes, the NFHS baseball rules book). I'm a brand new member, so I don't know how many hours in total this will involve. In speaking to a current member, I'm pretty sure that it will involve near-daily email communication with other members as well as a weekend (Friday-Sunday) conference in Indiana.

(5) Serve as an independent contractor for MiLB evaluating first-year pro umpires. This past summer I attended 15 games. For each game I attended, I stayed the entire game and met with the umpires in their locker room after the game. I also had to write detailed reports to MiLB umpire development. I also speak to umpire development supervisors on the telephone weekly (at a minimum).

Also, please note that I have NOT included the travel time I spend to be able to umpire (especially to umpire college games or evaluate MiLB umpires), nor have I included the entire weekends I give up in the spring when I stay at a hotel for an NCAA series (so while the games might only be 3-hours long, I'm actually "umpiring" the entire weekend.) I have not included the time I spend on this (and other) message boards discussing umpire issues (which is one way we all learn). I also did not include time spent reading umpiring books (rule book, BRD, mechanics manuals, etc.) of which I do a lot.

So, please do not tell me that a JV player works harder than me. Maybe they work as hard as me, but they don't work harder. Umpiring has become my jealous mistress.

PonyUmpire · September 15, 2015

That's the most ignorant thing I've seen written on this entire thread. It was not directed at me, but you just as easily could have made the same assumption (that a JV player works harder than me) about me.
Just for your edification (and I am but one poster on this site), in addition to working 51 NCAA games, 20+ American Legion and 10+ FED games this past year, I also have or will this year:
(1) Serve as the President and lead trainer of my high school association. I'm paid absolutely nothing for anything I do as President. In this role this past year I spent:
         (a) 20-25 hours editing, narrating and producing an hour-long rules training film (in the style of the NCAA rules update videos)
         (b) 20 hours (two 10-hour days) as the lead instructor of an on-field mechanics clinic that had attendees from throughout South Carolina. I spend upwards of 30-40 hours preparing for this clinic.
         (c)  12 hours leading our weekly pre-season rules study classes. I spent at least 24 hours just preparing for those 12 hours (2 hours of preparation for 1 hour of instruction.)
         (d) 10-15 hours during November and into December editing our association's umpire manual (200 pages). It took me over 100 hours to write that manual 10-years ago. Now I just edit and update it annually.
         (e) 20 hours leading our monthly board of directors meetings. I spent, probably, 10-15 hours preparing for these meetings.
         (f) 3 hours teaching a three-man mechanics clinic just prior to the start of the playoffs. I spent 1.5 hours preparing for this clinic.
         (g) Countless hours communicating with association members (whether via telephone, text or email) about various issues they may have.
(2)  Served as an instructor at two clinics run by my college association in another state. These clinics were Friday evening and all day Saturday and Sunday. So, again, 20-hours at each clinic (not including prep time).
(3) Serve as an assistant umpire supervisor at two weekend youth tournaments. Each tournament is 16-hours (back-to-back 8 hour days).
(4) Serve as a member of the NFHS baseball rules committee (that edits, writes, the NFHS baseball rules book). I'm a brand new member, so I don't know how many hours in total this will involve. In speaking to a current member, I'm pretty sure that it will involve near-daily email communication with other members as well as a weekend (Friday-Sunday) conference in Indiana.
(5) Serve as an independent contractor for MiLB evaluating first-year pro umpires. This past summer I attended 15 games. For each game I attended, I stayed the entire game and met with the umpires in their locker room after the game. I also had to write detailed reports to MiLB umpire development. I also speak to umpire development supervisors on the telephone weekly (at a minimum).
Also, please note that I have NOT included the travel time I spend to be able to umpire (especially to umpire college games or evaluate MiLB umpires), nor have I included the entire weekends I give up in the spring when I stay at a hotel for an NCAA series (so while the games might only be 3-hours long, I'm actually "umpiring" the entire weekend.) I have not included the time I spend on this (and other) message boards discussing umpire issues (which is one way we all learn). I also did not include time spent reading umpiring books (rule book, BRD, mechanics manuals, etc.) of which I do a lot.
So, please do not tell me that a JV player works harder than me. Maybe they work as hard as me, but they don't work harder. Umpiring has become my jealous mistress.

Honestly, my comment wasn't supposed to be a generalization. It was directed specifically at @catsbakr, in response to his comment about assuming everyone's a rat. I'm not pretending to be able to speak for every umpire, or for you. You're somebody I respect a lot on these forums, knowing your experience umpiring higher level ball. My point is that for MOST umpires (and that was the read I got on the member I mentioned) umpiring is a passion or hobby, but not their life. For higher level players, baseball is their LIFE. There's something fundamentally wrong with someone in the former group making any kind of preconceived judgement about the latter. If you want, let's talk this out via PM

PonyUmpire · September 15, 2015

@lawump I changed the comment to refer to me specifically, so as not to make a false generalization (which is ironic, because that's exactly what I was calling out @catsbackr for doing). Thanks for calling me out on that! When you get into a back and forth with a particular member, it can be easy to forget that others are also looking in.

Edited September 15, 2015 by PonyUmpire

lawump · September 15, 2015

I apologize for coming after you, specifically, @‌PonyUmpire. The truth is that numerous posters have made general comments like that over the last 10+ years I have been posting on line on umpire internet boards. They have always annoyed me...yours was just the one that broke the camel's back and caused me to post a response for the first time. Again, I apologize for directing it at you.

As you know, I, like many posters on this thread, spend just as much time on baseball as many high school coaches (I won't say "as NCAA coaches" due to the fact that most NCAA coaches (especially D. 1) coach as their full-time year-round job.) I won't go into many details, but I once educated a local high school coach about how much time I (and a lot of umpires) spend on baseball. He was amazed. I think he thought that our umpires just bought a uniform and showed up for a game to collect a fee.

I told him that it is true that there are umpires who only umpire for the game fee and who do the minimum amount required to collect game fees. But, I added that those type of umpires are very comparable to the baseball coaches in our state who only coach the baseball team so that they can earn a bigger paycheck as the defensive or offensive coordinator for the football team; they only coach baseball to be able to coach football and collect the ridiculous (IMHO) salaries that some high schools in our state pay football coaches. Those coaches give nothing to baseball but the minimum. I added, however, that like him as a coach, there are umpires that umpire for the love of the game and actually take an economic loss umpiring when all of the hours and expenses are calculated. I told him that while he and I come to baseball from different perspectives, that my wife, like his, thinks I spend way too much time with baseball and not her!

PonyUmpire · September 15, 2015

I apologize for coming after you, specifically, @‌PonyUmpire. The truth is that numerous posters have made general comments like that over the last 10+ years I have been posting on line on umpire internet boards. They have always annoyed me...yours was just the one that broke the camel's back and caused me to post a response for the first time. Again, I apologize for directing it at you.
As you know, I, like many posters on this thread, spend just as much time on baseball as many high school coaches (I won't say "as NCAA coaches" due to the fact that most NCAA coaches (especially D. 1) coach as their full-time year-round job.) I won't go into many details, but I once educated a local high school coach about how much time I (and a lot of umpires) spend on baseball. He was amazed. I think he thought that our umpires just bought a uniform and showed up for a game to collect a fee.
I told him that it is true that there are umpires who only umpire for the game fee and who do the minimum amount required to collect game fees. But, I added that those type of umpires are very comparable to the baseball coaches in our state who only coach the baseball team so that they can earn a bigger paycheck as the defensive or offensive coordinator for the football team; they only coach baseball to be able to coach football and collect the ridiculous (IMHO) salaries that some high schools in our state pay football coaches. Those coaches give nothing to baseball but the minimum. I added, however, that like him as a coach, there are umpires that umpire for the love of the game and actually take an economic loss umpiring when all of the hours and expenses are calculated. I told him that while he and I come to baseball from different perspectives, that my wife, like his, thinks I spend way too much time with baseball and not her!

No worries at all. How do you feel about my thoughts on game management? I'll 'hopefully' be starting on some college ball this coming season, so I need all the wisdom I can get.

ElkOil · September 15, 2015

It reads to me that you're seeking adoration from game participants; that you are hoping that you will be liked by the game participants. This is basically the worst reason to umpire. I personally can't imagine umpiring a game and thinking, "I hope I do good so that the team will want me back again." I don't give a sh!t whether the team(s) want me back or not. My duty is owed to the game itself, not the game participants.
With the exception of the occasional game participant who may have umpired in the past, game participants are universally unqualified to evaluate umpires. Most of them probably believe the false axiom, "a good umpire is one you never see," which, as Bruce Froemming said (to paraphrase), "was probably spoken by an umpire who was afraid to run/control a ball game." For example, one American Legion team this year complained about an umpire they had during a regional tournament game. They said and/or implied that he was "over his head," and "wasn't qualified to work a national American Legion tournament." The funny part was that that umpire had just umpired an NCAA Division 1 Super Regional two months prior. These coaches were/are absolutely clueless about what constitutes a good umpire that they should want to "ask back" to umpire their games. An umpire doesn't fall into an NCAA Division 1 Super Regional by accident. This team just didn't like the fact that this umpire didn't let them get away with any bullsh!t during their game.
Personally, the only thing I hope for is that when a member of my umpire association accepts a game on "Arbiter" and sees they have me as their partner, that member says to himself, "oh good, I have him as a partner." I don't give two cents what the team(s) think.

If you don't care whether or not you're "THAT guy," good luck to you. It's gotten you this far in your umpiring career, so I'm sure it's working. I'm not trying to change you or apply value judgments to the reasons you have for being in the game. You've completely mis-characterized of my integrity, my intentions and my reasons for umpiring.

PonyUmpire · September 15, 2015

If you don't care whether or not you're "THAT guy," good luck to you. It's gotten you this far in your umpiring career, so I'm sure it's working. I'm not trying to change you or apply value judgments to the reasons you have for being in the game. You've completely mis-characterized of my integrity, my intentions and my reasons for umpiring.

(@lawump) @ElkOil, I don't figure you for the type of umpire who goes out of his way to please coaches. I just think there's something SUBTLY wrong with your approach. Respect is key as an umpire, but giving even a fraction of a sh*t about whether you get it from coaches is not going to get you any more (in fact, it's going to end up getting you less). It seems like you're bringing a *small* part of your ego onto the field, where you have this notion of yourself as a "respected" umpire. This is what leads to bad games. You miss a call or mismanage a situation, especially in a high level game (which is no less likely to happen than a low level game), and this self image of being a "respected umpire" gets shaken. Your mental game breaks down and the rest of the game becomes bad, not just that one call (why should it have to be more?). I think a lot of umpires fall into the "I don't care what they think of my calls, but I want respect" trap. When you come onto the field expecting ANYTHING, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. You can't do anything more than your best, and the game participants just have to deal with it. You wouldn't be on the game if better umpires than you didn't think you belonged there.

Edited September 15, 2015 by PonyUmpire

ElkOil · September 15, 2015

(@lawump) @ElkOil, I don't figure you for the type of umpire who goes out of his way to please coaches. I just think there's something SUBTLY wrong with your approach. Respect is key as an umpire, but giving even a fraction of a sh*t about whether you get it from coaches is not going to get you any more (in fact, it's going to end up getting you less). It seems like you're bringing a *small* part of your ego onto the field, where you have this notion of yourself as a "respected" umpire. This is what leads to bad games. You miss a call or mismanage a situation, especially in a high level game (which is no less likely to happen than a low level game), and this self image of being a "respected umpire" gets shaken. Your mental game breaks down and the rest of the game becomes bad, not just that one call (why should it have to be more?). I think a lot of umpires fall into the "I don't care what they think of my calls, but I want respect" trap. When you come onto the field expecting ANYTHING, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. You can't do anything more than your best, and the game participants just have to deal with it. You wouldn't be on the game if better umpires than you didn't think you belonged there.

This is one of those agree-to-disagree things. If I say anything else along this line, the mods are going to lock up the thread and I don't want the conversation to stop on account of me.

Majordave · September 15, 2015

@ElkOil Why not say what you want? With self-editing of course. We don't want you to feel stifled just be semi-respectful and less profane than me. (Hahaha)

PonyUmpire · September 15, 2015

@ElkOil. You're not going to offend me with what you say. I just want to hear what you think. I'm also fine with leaving the discussion here if that's what you want to do.

RichMSN · September 15, 2015

(@lawump) @ElkOil, I don't figure you for the type of umpire who goes out of his way to please coaches. I just think there's something SUBTLY wrong with your approach. Respect is key as an umpire, but giving even a fraction of a sh*t about whether you get it from coaches is not going to get you any more (in fact, it's going to end up getting you less). It seems like you're bringing a *small* part of your ego onto the field, where you have this notion of yourself as a "respected" umpire. This is what leads to bad games. You miss a call or mismanage a situation, especially in a high level game (which is no less likely to happen than a low level game), and this self image of being a "respected umpire" gets shaken. Your mental game breaks down and the rest of the game becomes bad, not just that one call (why should it have to be more?). I think a lot of umpires fall into the "I don't care what they think of my calls, but I want respect" trap. When you come onto the field expecting ANYTHING, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. You can't do anything more than your best, and the game participants just have to deal with it. You wouldn't be on the game if better umpires than you didn't think you belonged there.

Knowledgeable coaches with good programs tend to "get" the difference between good umpiring and bad umpiring.

It's one reason I tend to avoid smaller schools as much as possible, EVEN while I assign for 14 of them. The level of ball isn't as good, the level of coaching isn't (usually) as good, and the coaches don't tend to understand good umpiring. Makes for longer days.

Keep in mind I don't work for 1 assigner -- I can work for as many as I want as each league has their own. I choose to work for only 3, but that gives me enough HS games to work as many dates as I want around my college schedule.

lawump · September 15, 2015

No worries at all. How do you feel about my thoughts on game management? I'll 'hopefully' be starting on some college ball this coming season, so I need all the wisdom I can get.

No matter what level I work, I show respect to the game participants until they prove that they are no longer deserving of respect. When they prove they are no longer deserving of respect, I don't swear at them or yell at them (like I may have in pro ball), I just get rid of them. In other words, I treat each coach as not being a RAT until they prove they are a RAT.

As for me, I approach each game professionally (not with the pro-umpire attitude of "umpires vs. the world", but rather as a trained professional). When I'm the plate umpire, I run a tight pre-game plate meeting. I don't joke, but I don't give threats, either. I shake their hands, review the line-up cards (home team's reviewed first), let the head coach do the ground rules, confirm if they'll be announcing the starting line-ups on the p.a. and/or national anthem and send them on their way. During the game I avoid chit-chat, I stay out of the dugouts and I keep the game moving by making sure the ball is thrown down to second base after five warm-up tosses. Which is exactly the same stuff I did as a pro umpire. When a coach comes out for a "non-routine" situation I try to keep my mouth shut and listen to what he has to say.

But there are RATS in baseball. I think 95% of pro managers are RATS while 95% of high school coaches are not RATS (they're teachers, first. They may teach so that they can coach, but teaching is their career). I think the NCAA percentage falls in between. Here is an extreme example of RAT behavior: a D-1 mid-major school in my state built a beautiful 2,000 seat stadium ten years ago. It rivals most Class A ballparks. No umpire locker room was built in the stadium. The umpires still had to change at their car OR change in the basketball referee's locker room in the basketball arena and be driven by golf cart across the athletic complex. I know for a fact (I have inside sources at the school) that the lack of a locker room was not an accidental oversight. That coach just had the mentality that each game was his team vs. the other team AND umpires and he treated the umpires according to that mentality.

But only you can decide for yourself whether or not someone is a RAT. I umpired four games at a D-1 school this year. It was the first time I had ever worked at this school. I had been warned by numerous umpires that the head coach was a KING RAT. I umpired four games (3 on the plate) and he never said a word; he just came out in one game and asked for a rules clarification with no argument. So, you never know.

Edited September 17, 2015 by lawump

MadMax · September 15, 2015

In defense of @ElkOil's perspective, there are times / instances / games where your performance (as an umpire) is under review and evaluation by those who aren't qualified to do so (i.e. coaches, tournament directors, league directors, etc.). Good tournament directors (TDs) will have a UIC or a veteran umpire he/she will lean on or defer to for interacting with the rest of the umpires. Most TDs (at least those I've worked for) deal with participant issues very well, and back and manage their umpires with diplomacy if not completely. There are some who lack that resolute fortitude, and get really wishy-washy, and there are a few who cave to whatever the participants whine and gripe about.

One prominent league here in my region is run by a gentleman who is a coach-turned-businessman-turned-director. The only relevance he has to umpiring, and its practices, is his son umpires when available (I've worked with him; he's not bad, just far too quiet and unassuming), or he will "throw a shirt on" and umpire if direly needed. Some advantages to his league are that he allows you (as an umpire) the latitude to wear what you want, it is self-assigned (you pick 'em), it is cash-paid-at-plate-meeting, and his Rules, besides being based on NFHS (groan), are very simple and cut-and-dry. Some disadvantages are, rather glaringly, the lack of partner-assigning control (can't block, and you may get a partner not qualified for the level or intensity of game we're about to call) and the lack of evaluation, peer review, or critical feedback. Coaches are allowed to provide feedback, but it is completely unfiltered, unqualified, frequently irrelevant or out-of-context, and in those (rare) cases when it's needed most (ejections, rules issues, etc.) it is biased. Furthermore, he runs Tournaments and Invitationals, with no controls over which umpires get which games and who with (as a partner). So, while you may conduct yourself with as much class and integrity as possible, your efforts will be either undone or undermined by a partner who, because he's "THAT guy" now affects you as an umpire team, and soon you're "THOSE guys".

And yes, that comment from a grandfather of one of the ballplayers, while you're walking down the concourse a few minutes after the end of the game, and you're on the verge of hurling baseballs at your partner's head, of "Hey young fella, my grandson's team mighta lost, but you're the best umpire I've seen at these tournaments,", does matter. It keeps you from just giving up and mailing it in for the day.

So in essence, there is a relationship between the game – its rules and your priority in calling the game as its umpire – and its participants, and you have to be aware of and balance it without compromising the game or your integrity.

To address @clasonater: This is not said flippantly – The event of a catcher¹ turning heel on me to curse me out wouldn't happen to me because I wouldn't let it get to that point. I routinely have civil (at least) to excellent rapport with catchers. Even the few "framers" I've called behind may grumble, but it hasn't risen above a terse "discussion with the wind" ("Ball!" [holding it there] "Oh come on." [throws back to pitcher] "Didn't catch the corner. If it does, you'll get it."). What @PonyUmpire is picking up on, Clas, is that a foul-mouthed, explosively-abusive catcher is very rare, even if they are a teenager. Something likely built up to it. If it just spontaneously happened, then you encountered a pariah (or a catcher with Tourettes).

To address @catsbackr: You remember my Why Do Cows Lean on Fences? (You can't call that in 11U) post, right? You might tread in a region rife with acerbic, problematic coaches, but the vast majority of coaches I've encountered are just as I expect them to be – civil competitors in this game of baseball.

Et Mor Chikin.

clasonater · September 16, 2015

Because "one of those days where you can tell the catcher hates your guts... and the feeling is mutual" is not a sentence that would leave the mouth of an umpire who truly understands game management (read: an umpire who's going to move up). Plain and simple. If you're regularly (or really at all) letting your emotions inform your interactions with game participants, you're already failing to do your job right. I'm sorry if that sounds like garbage to you

I didn't ask for your opinion on how to do my job. Spend more time around umpires where you plan to move up. You will hear it.

To address @clasonater: This is not said flippantly – The event of a catcher¹ turning heel on me to curse me out wouldn't happen to me because I wouldn't let it get to that point. I routinely have civil (at least) to excellent rapport with catchers. Even the few "framers" I've called behind may grumble, but it hasn't risen above a terse "discussion with the wind" ("Ball!" [holding it there] "Oh come on." [throws back to pitcher] "Didn't catch the corner. If it does, you'll get it."). What @PonyUmpire is picking up on, Clas, is that a foul-mouthed, explosively-abusive catcher is very rare, even if they are a teenager. Something likely built up to it. If it just spontaneously happened, then you encountered a pariah (or a catcher with Tourettes).

I see what your saying Madmax. And I will have to respectfully disagree that that is not what Pony umpire is picking up on. Yes, there was a build up, I wasn't going to give pitches in the dirt and up at the neck to 16 year olds. I went through all the steps trying to find a better place with this kid. He just wasn't having it. . . period. He game me the opportunity and I had to take it. I did not hear a peep from anybody after. In my phone call to the assignor for the report he said "alright sounds good" and that was the end of it.

scrounge · September 16, 2015

Can we shut this pissing match down? Please?

MadMax · September 16, 2015

Whoa whoa whooooaaaaa, @PonyUmpire. Please edit your above post to @clasonater. That paragraph describing holding a ball out there, and whether or not it caught the corner... That was from me. Clasonater tried to quote that section, and this forum mangled it, making it appear as just a common paragraph (and generated by him).

My paragraph was purely a hypothetical scenario, and did not happen to Clas. I was merely illustrating how there is a build-up to an outburst like that, that it doesn't happen spontaneously... unless he's one of "them teenagers on them drugs".

Aging_Arbiter · September 16, 2015

Have you actually met a teenager? That's an age you can breath wrong and they hate you. Even a normally good natured well seasoned 16u catcher is still a teen and will have those moments so it's not out of the realm of possibilities for him to hate an ump for no reason.

tic-tac?

PonyUmpire · September 16, 2015

Whoa whoa whooooaaaaa, @PonyUmpire. Please edit your above post to @clasonater. That paragraph describing holding a ball out there, and whether or not it caught the corner... That was from me. Clasonater tried to quote that section, and this forum mangled it, making it appear as just a common paragraph (and generated by him).
My paragraph was purely a hypothetical scenario, and did not happen to Clas. I was merely illustrating how there is a build-up to an outburst like that, that it doesn't happen spontaneously... unless he's one of "them teenagers on them drugs".

I've got you @MadMax. I deleted both posts, because in light of that, I don't think they were appropriate. Not as an excuse, but as an aside, I don't know what happened with the quote system, but I've been having trouble getting it to work properly, so I can see how everything got jumbled together. The second post was uncalled for in the first place (although I think it's valid to say that the kind of umpire who gets defensive in an anonymous forum *may* be having similar issues on the field).

Edited September 16, 2015 by PonyUmpire

PonyUmpire · September 16, 2015

Well your an idiot and you sound like a coach to me. And what the hell is a Pony umpire? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One thing I struggle with is throwing balls back to the pitcher.

Edited September 16, 2015 by PonyUmpire

That's B%llSH*# Blue

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