First EJ of the year

[webspinnre]

I've been regularly reading this forum over the last couple of months, looking for tips on improving game management. After today's game, I feel like I've got a ways to go.

 

Doing an interleague LL Majors (10-12 year olds) game tonight, 1 man mechanic (not ideal, but it is what it is), end up EJing the VT assistant. Been awhile since I've had to write up a real report (apart from a 13 year old who last year yelled the word that rhymes with "duck!" loud enough the whole park could hear it when he got jammed and hit a comebacker). Here's what I've got, minus the parentheticals:

 

At plate meeting went over ground rules, explained I'd be happy to talk to them if they call time, but that there wouldn't be any yelling or chirping from the dugout. Top of 3rd, R1 and R2, VT hits liner to F3, caught, touches 1B for out on R1. I yell, "That's a catch! That's a catch!" and signal outs for the catch and the touched base. As VT ass. crosses back from 1st base coaching, he yells at me, "that was a trap, not a catch!" I walk up beside him and tell him "We won't be discussing safe and out calls today, coach". (probably should have said judgment calls here) In the bottom of the 3rd, HT hits ball to deep right center, digs for 3rd. Throw beats him, but horrible tag misses him, I call safe. VT ass. SCREAMS from the dugout, "That was an out, Blue!" (As I glance over, he's literally jumping up and down) Top of the 6th, HT hits ball between F1 and F3, F3 fields and tosses to F4 covering 1B. I have foot on the bag before BR and call out. VT ass. then yells, "He missed the base!" I hold up my palm in the stop sign. He then yells, "That's 3 today, blue!" & I immediately EJ. He blows up, says I didn't give him a warning. I (too loudly) tell him that I did give him his warning. (Manager is unhappy, comes out to tell me that I hadn't given him a warning, I tell him I had, and tells me that it's three bad calls I've had today, or three I've missed today or something to that effect and walks away.) VT ass. continues to yell from the dugout, I inform manager the game won't continue until he's in the parking lot. (2 more outs, game is over)

I'm looking for feedback both on writing the report, and on the situation. I was told after the EJ by the HTHC that I did miss the call (apparently F4's foot came across behind base and didn't actually touch) and he doesn't care if I change it, but obviously I'm not overturning a call without either having seen it myself or having a partner provide information. I'm about 80% sure on the liner call, and 100% sure on the tag at 3rd. Should I have told the manager after I'd warned the ass.? Should I be giving a bit more rope early in the game given that I'm 1 man and will miss a few calls I just won't have the angle on? Am I too quick on the stop sign (or should I not use it)? Pretty sure that the EJ after the stop sign is deserved, though I wish I hadn't gotten as loud when responding to him, or initially to the manager. In the good news, HTHC is also league president and said he had no problem with the EJ.

Edited May 13, 2015 by webspinnre

[ElkOil]

I like the "Three Ps" rule for ejections:  Eject if it's Personal, Profane or Prolonged.  Some chirping doesn't bother me, and I give lots of slack.  However, the assistant shouldn't be saying anything to you and you did warn him, so this one is certainly your judgement as to whether you thought he crossed a line.  It seems to me like the assistant was protesting too much.  I mean, there was only one of you.  Everyone needs to understand that you're going to be limited and challenged, and if he didn't and still felt like squawking, well, he deserved what he got if you ask me.

[pnewton]

I may be a bit of a redass on this one but counting calls is showing you up - he doesn't get to do that.  He didn't understand that the hand up is the warning, the shame is that no one will sit down with him after the emotions are gone and explain how his actions led to the ejection.

[afaber12]

​I'm assuming the first incident has a typo and that it was the VT batting not the HT - usually ACs aren't silly enough to complain about outs they got that they think they shouldn't have.  At that one it needs to be acknowledged somehow: what you said is fine, but using "judgement calls" instead does cover you for everything rather than getting into a childish argument on "you warned me about safe and out, not balls and strikes, or fair and foul". (On that, you shouldn't have to but at some point a base coach will complain you only warned about chirping from the dugout, not from the coaches boxes.) You said he yelled the trap v catch comment: depending on volume, distance, who else likely heard, any gestures that went along with it, maybe a chat with the manager to settle his assistant down might have been worthwhile, but that's HTBT.

Given the previous warning, the screaming from the dugout at the second incident needs something. If its worth going in the report, it was probably worth at least a "Knock it off/That's enough!" at the time. You've already warned him so an ejection here isn't ridiculous, but again it depends. If I hadn't spoken to the manager on the first incident, I'm definitely speaking to him on this one. If you're not going to do it right then and there, the next change of inning, pitching change, or other break will do. At this point the assistant is on the thinnest ice possible.

Once the assistant's ejected I'm not responding to him. At most I'm telling the manager to get him gone. As long as the manager comes out calmly I'm prepared to explain there were multiple warnings and then get on with the game, but otherwise he's on a short leash too. When he starts counting bad calls, he's either got a thread left to his leash if he's calm, or he's following his assistant.

I'm of the opinion that you don't change the amount of rope you give depending on how confident you are in the call. Whatever you did and didn't see is what you've got to decide, and working solo there's no one else to check with because everyone else has a dog in the fight.

[rpumpire]

In an ejection report, it is probably not the best thing to abbreviate the word assistant with "ass." -- even though it is likely an apt description.

 

Edited May 14, 2015 by rpumpire

[Stan W.]

good ejection, well deserved.....

In a one man game, you do the best you can with what you can see. Hustle, get into the best position you can, make a call and move on....you do not have a partner to go to, so be confident in your calls and stick with it....

its not your job to keep a coach in the game, its theirs to make sure they behave properly....his actions, his antics, his screaming, and him calling you a cheater (which is what "counting calls") is really saying.....deserves an ejection...........assistant coaches have little standing in my games......

Try and stay as calm as possible...many times they want you to come unglued so that they can remark on how unprofessional you are.....the calmer you are the more the EJ looks appropriate based on the displayed behavior......

[catsbackr]

Good ejection.

 

Don't get so wordy in your interaction with coaches or on your reports.  "Knock it off" is your friend.  Warning??  Asst. coach is jumping up and down in his dugout as he yells at you?  Goodbye.

 

I would have ejected the HC, too.  He doesn't get to count how many he thinks I've missed.  Nope, goodbye.

[UmpJeff]

I liked your use of "ass." to describe the AC.  He certainly was.  I might have dumped him after the scream from the dugout "that was an out, Blue!".  But, the end result was the the same.  

Good EJ.

[HuskerUmp22]

First, good EJ. This is my first time offering advice regarding game management situations on this website, so realize I am still learning very much on these situations also. 

After you called "That's a catch," you could have just ignored those first comments from the coach. (HTBT though, b/c I don't know what kind of tone he used). So don't walk up beside him and tell him: "we won't be discussing out/safe calls" just ignore first. (I like the ignore, acknowledge, warn, eject way to handle these types of situations). I agree with Stan, try to stay calm. Be careful what tone you use when acknowledging or warning. 

I would have warned him in the bottom of the third when he screams from the dugout with a stop sign with your hand. It sounds like you ignored or just looked over at the coach. If you have a lineup card holder you could write down and say casually: "That's a warning on the VT AC for loud comments from the dugout."  Do NOT yell "That's a warning." Remember to stay calm. 

After the warning then obviously any screaming, jumping, etc directed at you is an ejection. But I wonder if you would have ignorned and then casually warned the AC how he would have responded after that. 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2015 by HuskerUmp22

[webspinnre]

​I'm assuming the first incident has a typo and that it was the VT batting not the HT -

​Good catch, thank you.

In an ejection report, it is probably not the best thing to abbreviate the word assistant with "ass." -- even though it is likely an apt description.

 

​ In the real thing I used asst instead - this was just more therapeutic for the post here.

Thank you all for the excellent feedback. Looking back, there's definitely some things I would've liked to have done differently, starting with bringing the manager into it after the first warning so he has an opportunity to calm his coach down, rather than (perhaps willfully) unaware that his coach was in hot water. And yeah, I definitely wish I'd been more cool/disciplined in the actual ejection. The other issue is rather than the Ignore, Acknowledge/Warn, Eject protocol here, I probably ended up following more of a Warn, Ignore, Eject protocol, which can also cause confusion from a game management perspective. Not having a BU to post-game with after this one, I greatly appreciate the opportunity to use the forum as the next best thing.

[DVA7130]

Just a side note, if you are going to post the specific league you work in, I would be careful what is posted online. You never know who might end up reading what. I've actually gotten a phone call from an assigner about something I posted that someone somewhere somehow tracked back to me.

[Specks]

‌@webspinnre Remember that you don't have to respond to everything said to you. Answer questions, "that was a trap not a catch" is a statement and depending on the volume probably wouldn't get a response from me. The process of Ignore Acknowledge Warn Eject should be reserved for managers not ass coaches....hey that is theraputic. They are there to assist their manager, they have NO responsibilities in the administration of the game. They get no rope. As far as the counting, I'm with most and both would have been gone. Counting is the same thing as saying I'm incompetent, they can think it and it might be true sometimes but you can't say it.

[blue23ll]

If you ejected the assistant coach for counting calls, why didn't you eject the mgr for doing the same thing? 

Also, I thought League Presidents were prohibited from managing teams??

[webspinnre]

I ejected the assistant for yelling at/arguing with the umpire, though counting calls also could have been appropriate. I probably could've tossed the manager too, but he hadn't caused any problems that game, no one would've known why he was tossed, and there were two outs left in the game (in which the VT was down 9-0).

League presidents can't manage or coach in All-Stars, but they can for the regular season.

[catsbackr]

Try and get used to using terms like, unsportsmanlike behaivor, or persistent arguing after a warning, or profane comments, etc.  

 

Stay away from "yelling at/arguing", etc. if you can.  Use rulebook listed offenses in ejection reports and keep it brief.  

 

Once again, good ejection.

[smoyer]

Depending on what rules you are playing under,their is usally nothing in the rule book that reads you have to give a warning.