Hands on knees?

[Umpire in Chief]

At the clinic I was at last weekend, I was commented on for while on the bases not coming set in the hands on knees position before making my call. More times than not when I come set I stop, lean a bit into the play and have my hands on my upper thighs. I find this works better and allows me more mobility to reset my position if there is a swipe tag, or anything else that requires me to adjust my position quickly once I've stopped. Do you think hinds on knees is absolutely necessary, or is it a false mechanic to get people in the habit of coming to a stop to make their call?

[UmpJM]

At the clinic I was at last weekend, I was commented on for while on the bases not coming set in the hands on knees position before making my call. More times than not when I come set I stop, lean a bit into the play and have my hands on my upper thighs. I find this works better and allows me more mobility to reset my position if there is a swipe tag, or anything else that requires me to adjust my position quickly once I've stopped. Do you think hinds on knees is absolutely necessary, or is it a false mechanic to get people in the habit of coming to a stop to make their call?

Warren,

I will usually go to a "HOK set" to see a play on the bases, with a few exceptions (e.g. front end of a 6-4-3 DP), and I don't find it a "false mechanic". I'm not sure it's "absolutley necessary", but I do think it helps with "head stability" to give me a clearer view of the action.

JM

[BrianC14]

Warren,

I will usually go to a "HOK set" to see a play on the bases, with a few exceptions (e.g. front end of a 6-4-3 DP), and I don't find it a "false mechanic". I'm not sure it's "absolutley necessary", but I do think it helps with "head stability" to give me a clearer view of the action.

JM

I agree w/ JM - and I hear that HOK is what they're teaching at all the 'big boy umpire' clinics.

[MCLEOD36]

The only time I am not HOK is a DP situation, and moving with ball. I do agree it keeps your head still and helps with a call. If you are not HOK, you can make a quick call on bang/bang play that can be erroneous. For me, it helps with timing as well for those situations.

[Bailey8]

Can you explain the HOK set?

Thanks, Darin

[MCLEOD36]

HOK set, is having both hands fingers facing out thumbs in, locked above or on the knees, and head looking forward and a tad more then shoulder width apart stance. IE locked and loaded.

[BrianC14]

HOK set, is having both hands fingers facing out thumbs in, locked above or on the knees, and head looking forward and a tad more then shoulder width apart stance. IE locked and loaded.

But don't follow the lead of the guy in that picture with regard to:

a) watch

B) an indimicator... on the bases?

c) What's that in his pocket... a pack of Lucky's or Camels?

[LMSANS]

I have never been comfortable with the HOK set. When I attended JEA Liberty Classic, they said the HOK was strongly preferred, but the standing set was acceptable.

I do the same as Warren. I lean in a little but keep my hands on my thighs.

[LMSANS]

But don't follow the lead of the guy in that picture with regard to:

a) watch B)

B) an indimicator... on the bases?

c) What's that in his pocket... a pack of Lucky's or Camels?

Brian you have to cut some slack on that BU indicator thing. While I understand it is a mortal sin in some circles, there are associations that require it.:BD:

[mstaylor]

I teach to try to get to a HOKs position but I agree that on the thighs is fine. The purpose is to lock you in, if you lock on your thighs then it shouldn't be a problem. If you use a standing set, that's OK but it will make you fast and less stable. Try to get HOKs or HOTs. If you have an evaluator that is going to ding for using the thighs then work on doing what he wants.

[BrianC14]

Brian you have to cut some slack on that BU indicator thing. While I understand it is a mortal sin in some circles, there are associations that require it.

I know, I know.... but dammit, it's Friday afternoon, and I haven't slept since THURSDAY MORNING...pulled an allnighter from Thursday right up to htis very minute....

B) B) :TD:

[mstaylor]

Brian, that sleep thing is way over rated. I know, I'm in the concert business. :WTF

[BT_Blue]

I alot of the HOK thing is that it is taught as a standard instruction at clinics. That way everyone is on equal footing.

I used to walk into my set when A position with no one on. I was told to go to a HOK set before instead of walking in to my set since that is what the evaluators and coordinators in my area want. So now I do it.

[widac]

I have a related Q. I agree that you should be in HOK when making a call and at TOP when in B or C but what about when in A?

We are taught to be in HOK in A at TOP but I find it a liitle bit of a strain on my back, anyone else? Or am I a wuss?

[LMSANS]

I have a related Q. I agree that you should be in HOK when making a call and at TOP when in B or C but what about when in A?

We are taught to be in HOK in A at TOP but I find it a liitle bit of a strain on my back, anyone else? Or am I a wuss?

What do you do different in A than B or C? Are you not stepping back between pitches? It's all HOK. It should make a difference where you are on the field, except maybe there is a severe drop of into foul territory and you're on a slant.B)

[BT_Blue]

We are taught to be in HOK in A at TOP but I find it a liitle bit of a strain on my back, anyone else? Or am I a wuss?

Widac,

You are probably leaning forward to much at the waist. Do you have the same problem in B or C? I recommend bending at your knees a little more and that should put your back into better alignment.

Give that a go when the rain stops up there and let me know how it feels.

[widac]

What do you do different in A than B or C? Are you not stepping back between pitches? It's all HOK. It should make a difference where you are on the field, except maybe there is a severe drop of into foul territory and you're on a slant.B)

I'm not doing anything different, I think it's just the up and down 'tween pitches when there is not anything happening. There doesn't seem to be any reason to bend over when I can just stand there and then react when I need to move.

[widac]

Widac,

You are probably leaning forward to much at the waist. Do you have the same problem in B or C? I recommend bending at your knees a little more and that should put your back into better alignment.

Give that a go when the rain stops up there and let me know how it feels.

I won't have any games till 3/16 when the HS games start. I just came home from watching a game at The University of Portland (Div 1). The weather is beautiful

today. It'll probably start raining every day on around....uh, 3/16.

[BT_Blue]

I won't have any games till 3/16 when the HS games start. I just came home from watching a game at The University of Portland (Div 1). The weather is beautiful

today. It'll probably start raining every day on around....uh, 3/16.

Dont feel bad. I was supposed to have a double header on valentines day that got rained out (yes it does rain here in Southern CA). Im hoping to get to go and watch some baseball this weekend myself since Long Beach State plays their home games less than a mile from me. Hopefully I can grab a seat next to an evaluator or something so that I can pick their brains and see what they are looking for in a D1 umpire.

As for rain... yeh probably. I started my season on the last day of January and will end in April. Ill do summer ball this year as I made the mistake of not working it last year. Never again.

What I would really like to do, is take another trip up to Portland/Vancouver and maybe get to work some games during the summer up there. I think it would be a lot of fun.

[mstaylor]

It should be HOKs in all positions and when making a actual call, when possible. The secret is to go down as late as possible, or use a standing set when in A.

[BT_Blue]

Michael,

Doesnt the standing set counteract the HOK set? As for going down as late as possible, that is a little hard due to the fact your are moving in the opposite direction of where you want to go when the ball is hit. I recommend that if you use the HOK while in A with no one on that you come set when the pitcher starts his wind up, if not a little before. That way you are not moving when the pitch gets hit.

I used to walk into almost a scissor/HOK set in A but was told that is not something that some of the coordinators higher up here in SoCal want so I changed.

[mstaylor]

Michael,

Doesnt the standing set counteract the HOK set? As for going down as late as possible, that is a little hard due to the fact your are moving in the opposite direction of where you want to go when the ball is hit. I recommend that if you use the HOK while in A with no one on that you come set when the pitcher starts his wind up, if not a little before. That way you are not moving when the pitch gets hit.

I used to walk into almost a scissor/HOK set in A but was told that is not something that some of the coordinators higher up here in SoCal want so I changed.

Yes, it does counteract the HOK. I am saying that in A, there is no real reason to not a standing stance. If you use the HOK, then go down as late as possible, the start of pitch is good. I'm sorry if you took to mean to be moving on the hit.

In the middle, I go down after the pitcher has his signs. As he starts his pitch, I actually move my hands up to my thighs. I am more agile in that position. I don't feel I can move fast enough from a HOK position.

[BT_Blue]

I can totally agree with that. Like I said, I used to go into that hybrid scissor/HOK style set after taking a step or two into it but an evaluator and senior member of my college association recommended I go to a HOK set so I have. Only a couple base games so far but I like what I have seen.

[MCLEOD36]

Heck, that Brian is alright..... That was an old shot....

Guys, NEVER HAVE A WATCH ON.... The Indicator, you can use it, but not as a crutch. Mine has a GPS on it...or so a couple of guys told me at an NCAA clinic.....

What is that saying, a dame is a dame, but a good cigar a smoke? LOL

I think that was a 12U game, and I was called into service from the stands...

I still use an indicator, our association, likes the backup to keep unruly fans off partners in the event of, if the PU doesnt use it.

Lets see, oh in the pocket, pen/pencil/scorecard from league and GDavis pocket holder. Not like Brians pocket protector LOL

[BrianC14]

Heck, that Brian is alright..... That was an old shot....

Guys, NEVER HAVE A WATCH ON.... The Indicator, you can use it, but not as a crutch. Mine has a GPS on it...or so a couple of guys told me at an NCAA clinic.....

What is that saying, a dame is a dame, but a good cigar a smoke? LOL

I think that was a 12U game, and I was called into service from the stands...

I still use an indicator, our association, likes the backup to keep unruly fans off partners in the event of, if the PU doesnt use it.

Lets see, oh in the pocket, pen/pencil/scorecard from league and GDavis pocket holder. Not like Brians pocket protector LOL

LOL

Hey! I need a pocket protector! My little bullet pencils are worn down to the nub! I have 3 or 4 that I figure have at least 1, maybe 2 games left in them, and without my pocket protector, I'd have to fish around in my pocket every time I need it!

Last time I had a partner in the field using an indicator, I asked to see it just before we broke up our plate meeting. I kept it.

Great reference quote about dames and cigars, by the way!