Wendelstedt Manual Question

[Guest Hooker]

Hello all.

 

Reading my WUM, had a question on a case play.

 

Batting order: Abel, Baker, Charles, Daniel, Edward, Frank, George, Hooker, Irwin

 

K6 - No one on, no outs, no count. Hooker is due up, however Baker comes to bat. After two pitches, Baker knocks a base hit to right field. Irwin then comes to bat and walks on four pitches. Abel then moves Baker and Irwin up on a sacrifice bunt. After Abel is put out, the defense appeals to the plate umpire that the offense is batting out of order.

Ruling - Charles is called out and Abel's out is nullified. Baker is returned to second base and Irwin to first. The next proper batter is Daniel.

 

I don't understand how Charles is called out... This is how I see it so you can see my thought process and hopefully help... Hooker is proper batter, Baker is improper... First pitch to Irwin legitimizes Baker's at bat, Charles becomes the proper batter... First pitch to Abel legitimizes Irwin's at bat, Abel becomes the proper batter. Given Baker is currently on base, Charles becomes the proper batter when Abel reaches. No outs are recorded on the appeal.

 

What am I missing?

 

Thank you!

[noumpere]

I agree.

[Richvee]

The only way  I see Charles out is if the BOO appeal is made after Irwin's AB. 

[JaxRolo]

I don't see it

[clawdad]

I think I have it figured out, thanks to my newly purchased PBUC Umpre manual (http://www.amazon.com/PBUC-Umpire-Manual-Dusty-Dellinger-ebook/dp/B00MNKNL4M/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1412167648&sr=1-1&keywords=pbuc+umpire+manual)

 

• Hooker due up.  Baker BOO. Baker gets on base and no BOOT appeal
• Irwin bats and walks.  Legalizes Baker's at bat.  Proper Batter now = Charlie.  Still no BOOT appeal.  
• Able bats and sacrifice bunts for the out.  Charlie is the proper batter that Able batted for.  In a BOOT situation, the proper batter is always the one declared out. If the defense now appeals before the next pitch or play - and they do - by rule the proper batter is declared out. 

Since Charlie was the proper batter, he is declared out.  Runners on base return, and the name following the proper batter declared out - Daniel - is up to bat.

 

It's all about the timing of the appeal.

• if they made it during Able's at bat and before the out, Charlie comes to bat with Able's count.
• After Able's out but appealed after a pitch or play, then Irwin's AB is legalized.  Able follows Irwin, so he comes to bat again.

 

That's what I came up with.

[noumpere]

I think I have it figured out, thanks to my newly purchased PBUC Umpre manual (http://www.amazon.com/PBUC-Umpire-Manual-Dusty-Dellinger-ebook/dp/B00MNKNL4M/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1412167648&sr=1-1&keywords=pbuc+umpire+manual)

 

• Hooker due up.  Baker BOO. Baker gets on base and no BOOT appeal
• Irwin bats and walks.  Legalizes Baker's at bat.  Proper Batter now = Charlie.  Still no BOOT appeal.  
• Able bats and sacrifice bunts for the out.  Charlie is the proper batter that Able batted for.  In a BOOT situation, the proper batter is always the one declared out. If the defense now appeals before the next pitch or play - and they do - by rule the proper batter is declared out. 

Since Charlie was the proper batter, he is declared out.  Runners on base return, and the name following the proper batter declared out - Daniel - is up to bat.

 

It's all about the timing of the appeal.

• if they made it during Able's at bat and before the out, Charlie comes to bat with Able's count.
• After Able's out but appealed after a pitch or play, then Irwin's AB is legalized.  Able follows Irwin, so he comes to bat again.

 

That's what I came up with.

Your third statement above is incorrect.

 

You are correct that Irwin batted improperly for Charlie but just as Irwin taking a pitch legalizes Baker's at-bat (your second statement), Abel taking a pitch legalizes Irwin's at-bat (you are missing this piece).

 

Abel follows Irwin in the order, so Abel is both the actual batter and the proper batter.

[clawdad]

I think this is one of the places where the rules are fuzzy.  Maybe @umpschool can clarify for us.  My brain was hurting trying to figure it out.

[Sut'n Blue]

I don't see how Charles is out or anybody else for that matter so please explain if I have this wrong.

 

1. No appeal was made about Hooker failing to bat so Baker became the legitimate batter when the first pitch was thrown to Irwin (Baker's hit stands).

 

2. When Irwin took his first pitch, thereby legitimizing Baker, Charles became the proper batter as he is supposed to bat after Baker (Irwin is out of order).

 

3. However, no appeal was made about Irwin batting in Charles' place so after Irwin finished his at bat and Abel saw his first pitch, Irwin's at bat became legitimate (Irwin's walk stands).

 

4. Since Irwin became the legitimate batter Abel was due up - which is what happened - so there is no BOO to be called and Abel's turn at bat is legitimate with the runners remaining at 2nd and 3rd.

 

5. The next batter due up is Baker who is on base so Charles bats.

[umpschool]

This was an error that has since been corrected in the manual update. The answer was switched with another question. The answer to K6 should read:

 

Ruling: The pitch to Abel legalized Irwin's time at bat. The next proper batter is Abel. Since he completed his time at bat in the proper position, there is no violation. Baker would be the next proper batter, but since he is on base, Charles is the next batter due up.

 

Sorry about the confusion. This play was supposed to reference the casebook that instructs umpires how to proceed with the next proper batter already on base. This will be in the errata and update sheet coming out in December.

[clawdad]

I saw my error after @noumpere pointed it out. Thanks for the clarification, @umpschool