Question about plate positioning

[TStokes97]

Is it "ok" to line up over the catcher, I do this as in the "slot" I cannot call the outside pitch properly while over the catcher I can see this but unlike most I CAN see the low pitch just fine from over the catcher, is this an ok place to line up?

[maven]

As a general rule, no. You don't get as good a look at the entire plate, and you'll take a lot more balls in the face.

 

To learn to call the outside pitch, you need to use all available info, including the position of F2's mitt. You don't need to see the ball hit the edge of the plate in order to call the pitch correctly.

 

To practice, have a friend hold a ball over the outside corner (and again a couple inches outside, which you should still be getting as a strike) and in front of the plate, and have him move the ball back, as if to the mitt. Then move it wider, and wider again, until you get the hang of how to call it.

 

Or: just call them all strikes, until you have to start ejecting batters. Then you're probably wide enough.

[afaber12]

First off, if you're not in the slot you're more exposed than you need to be. Yes good masks and CPs will limit any injuries, but they don't catch everything, and even if they do you'll probably have to repair/recondition/replace them more often.

Second, not saying you're wrong but how do you know you're seeing the whole zone clearly from that position. Unless you've either filmed yourself or had someone watch you in that position, you'd be guessing whether you're right or not just as much as you apparently feel you are in the slot. Even then, depending on who's doing the assessing the feedback may not be completely reliable.

Third, whenever you do something non-standard from the other 99% of umpires (whether they do it right or wrong) you likely increase the perception on a close call that you're "out of position" for that you got it wrong, no matter how accurate you actually got it.

At the end of the day, if it works for you, you're getting the calls right, you're comfortable, then you can do it whatever way you like. But at least be aware of the issues.

[TStokes97]

First off, if you're not in the slot you're more exposed than you need to be. Yes good masks and CPs will limit any injuries, but they don't catch everything, and even if they do you'll probably have to repair/recondition/replace them more often.

Second, not saying you're wrong but how do you know you're seeing the whole zone clearly from that position. Unless you've either filmed yourself or had someone watch you in that position, you'd be guessing whether you're right or not just as much as you apparently feel you are in the slot. Even then, depending on who's doing the assessing the feedback may not be completely reliable.

Third, whenever you do something non-standard from the other 99% of umpires (whether they do it right or wrong) you likely increase the perception on a close call that you're "out of position" for that you got it wrong, no matter how accurate you actually got it.

At the end of the day, if it works for you, you're getting the calls right, you're comfortable, then you can do it whatever way you like. But at least be aware of the issues.

I had a supervisor watch me in both positions, review on strike zone was more favorable in out of slot position, are there videos on how to call better from the slot?

[UMP45]

 

First off, if you're not in the slot you're more exposed than you need to be. Yes good masks and CPs will limit any injuries, but they don't catch everything, and even if they do you'll probably have to repair/recondition/replace them more often.

Second, not saying you're wrong but how do you know you're seeing the whole zone clearly from that position. Unless you've either filmed yourself or had someone watch you in that position, you'd be guessing whether you're right or not just as much as you apparently feel you are in the slot. Even then, depending on who's doing the assessing the feedback may not be completely reliable.

Third, whenever you do something non-standard from the other 99% of umpires (whether they do it right or wrong) you likely increase the perception on a close call that you're "out of position" for that you got it wrong, no matter how accurate you actually got it.

At the end of the day, if it works for you, you're getting the calls right, you're comfortable, then you can do it whatever way you like. But at least be aware of the issues.

I had a supervisor watch me in both positions, review on strike zone was more favorable in out of slot position, are there videos on how to call better from the slot?

 

Your supervisor needs to go to some clinics!

[TStokes97]

First off, if you're not in the slot you're more exposed than you need to be. Yes good masks and CPs will limit any injuries, but they don't catch everything, and even if they do you'll probably have to repair/recondition/replace them more often.

Second, not saying you're wrong but how do you know you're seeing the whole zone clearly from that position. Unless you've either filmed yourself or had someone watch you in that position, you'd be guessing whether you're right or not just as much as you apparently feel you are in the slot. Even then, depending on who's doing the assessing the feedback may not be completely reliable.

Third, whenever you do something non-standard from the other 99% of umpires (whether they do it right or wrong) you likely increase the perception on a close call that you're "out of position" for that you got it wrong, no matter how accurate you actually got it.

At the end of the day, if it works for you, you're getting the calls right, you're comfortable, then you can do it whatever way you like. But at least be aware of the issues.

I had a supervisor watch me in both positions, review on strike zone was more favorable in out of slot position, are there videos on how to call better from the slot?

Your supervisor needs to go to some clinics!I don't think a clinic helps you calculate accurecy percentage, his analysis was number based he just totaled the percentage with each position

[Stan W.]

MST used to say "when its you against the world, bet on the world".............put more effort into working the slot

[maven]

I don't think a clinic helps you calculate accurecy percentage, his analysis was number based he just totaled the percentage with each position

You're right, a clinic is not about teaching the clinicians how accurately somebody calls pitches. Your guy's anecdotal evidence doesn't stack up well against millions of pro and college innings.

 

A clinic is a way for umpires who are much better than I am to share some of their techniques with me, so that I can get better. Clinics teach the slot.

 

In my experience many amateur umpires don't work in the slot enough. With the crap youth catchers we see, that's somewhat understandable.

 

So, as usual, you can do as you wish. If your question is: what's the best position for calling balls and strikes, then the answer is: the slot. Good for you that you care enough to ask: to really improve yourself, don't rely on an internet forum, but go to a clinic. If your experience is anything like mine, you'll be amazed at how you can improve.

[TStokes97]

I don't think a clinic helps you calculate accurecy percentage, his analysis was number based he just totaled the percentage with each position

You're right, a clinic is not about teaching the clinicians how accurately somebody calls pitches. Your guy's anecdotal evidence doesn't stack up well against millions of pro and college innings.

A clinic is a way for umpires who are much better than I am to share some of their techniques with me, so that I can get better. Clinics teach the slot.

In my experience many amateur umpires don't work in the slot enough. With the crap youth catchers we see, that's somewhat understandable.

So, as usual, you can do as you wish. If your question is: what's the best position for calling balls and strikes, then the answer is: the slot. Good for you that you care enough to ask: to really improve yourself, don't rely on an internet forum, but go to a clinic. If your experience is anything like mine, you'll be amazed at how you can improve. Looks like Im moving into the slot, only have 10U this week so good time to make a change perfect games to practice during

[MadMax]

@ - Pardon my sounding overly particular, but you use the qualifying word "properly". Who defines "properly"?

 

If you're basing this inquiry with the umpire brotherhood on the review of one supervisor, I would invoke you to consider – it's one supervisor, and there are thousands of umpires in all levels who will give you sound advice on what is a "proper" strike zone, pretty much entirely based on positioning in the Slot. Just for a chuckle, are you as tall as @BigUmpire ? He's the only one I could believe could be positioned behind the catcher and see the low strike, because he's so tall he's virtually above the plate.

 

Where was this supervisor sitting while he made his review? He, like every one of us, is looking for consistency (at least, he should be) in your strike zone. The problem with positioning directly behind the catcher is that you are increasing a variable – in this case, the catchers themselves, plural. If you position yourself in the Slot, and are consistent about it, the physical size and posture of the catcher in front of you becomes nearly irrelevant. If you always take up position behind the catcher, you're not only dealing with the catcher at that time, but also the other catcher. Double the variables.

 

Are you setting up behind the catcher because of a protection issue, or are you trying to center yourself on the point of home plate? Both of these are considerable factors, despite seeming minor or innocuous. I have found, more and more, young catchers who are being (incorrectly) taught to set up extremely outside (for no apparent reason other than they're trying to bait the batter into reading the upcoming pitch as a half-baked breaking ball that they have to lunge and swing at... which it won't be). I routinely peer down at the catcher and ask, "Uh, where are you going? The strike zone is over _here_." Are you going to take your strike zone with you to set up behind the catcher in the opposite batter's box? Didn't think so. In either case, you're letting the catcher dictate the strike zone to you (that little 9-year old pip-squeak), instead of you impressing your strike zone – consistently – upon the game batter-after-batter. So if that catcher keeps repositioning, how is that going to help your attempts at consistency?

 

While on this topic, I can't help but contribute this, and it may help you... You want to be rock-solid high/low. Establish your ceiling (upper bound of your zone) and your floor (lower bound of your zone). Those are the ones that turn the crowd on you if you're inconsistent there. Inside/Outside, though, isn't truly the black lines of the plate. Sure, the definition of the zone is the plate, but there's something to be said for interpretation, judgement and impression. If I have a batter step into the box and _draw_ the outside apex of his swing (I kid you not, he drew a line in the dirt a good two inches outside the black line), he just influenced my strike zone, and made it a lot easier to interpret. Pitch. Thud. "Streeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuk!!!!"

[TStokes97]

@ - Pardon my sounding overly particular, but you use the qualifying word "properly". Who defines "properly"?

If you're basing this inquiry with the umpire brotherhood on the review of one supervisor, I would invoke you to consider – it's one supervisor, and there are thousands of umpires in all levels who will give you sound advice on what is a "proper" strike zone, pretty much entirely based on positioning in the Slot. Just for a chuckle, are you as tall as @BigUmpire ? He's the only one I could believe could be positioned behind the catcher and see the low strike, because he's so tall he's virtually above the plate.

Where was this supervisor sitting while he made his review? He, like every one of us, is looking for consistency (at least, he should be) in your strike zone. The problem with positioning directly behind the catcher is that you are increasing a variable – in this case, the catchers themselves, plural. If you position yourself in the Slot, and are consistent about it, the physical size and posture of the catcher in front of you becomes nearly irrelevant. If you always take up position behind the catcher, you're not only dealing with the catcher at that time, but also the other catcher. Double the variables.

Are you setting up behind the catcher because of a protection issue, or are you trying to center yourself on the point of home plate? Both of these are considerable factors, despite seeming minor or innocuous. I have found, more and more, young catchers who are being (incorrectly) taught to set up extremely outside (for no apparent reason other than they're trying to bait the batter into reading the upcoming pitch as a half-baked breaking ball that they have to lunge and swing at... which it won't be). I routinely peer down at the catcher and ask, "Uh, where are you going? The strike zone is over _here_." Are you going to take your strike zone with you to set up behind the catcher in the opposite batter's box? Didn't think so. In either case, you're letting the catcher dictate the strike zone to you (that little 9-year old pip-squeak), instead of you impressing your strike zone – consistently – upon the game batter-after-batter. So if that catcher keeps repositioning, how is that going to help your attempts at consistency?

While on this topic, I can't help but contribute this, and it may help you... You want to be rock-solid high/low. Establish your ceiling (upper bound of your zone) and your floor (lower bound of your zone). Those are the ones that turn the crowd on you if you're inconsistent there. Inside/Outside, though, isn't truly the black lines of the plate. Sure, the definition of the zone is the plate, but there's something to be said for interpretation, judgement and impression. If I have a batter step into the box and _draw_ the outside apex of his swing (I kid you not, he drew a line in the dirt a good two inches outside the black line), he just influenced my strike zone, and made it a lot easier to interpret. Pitch. Thud. "Streeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuk!!!!"

By behind the catcher I ment point of the plate, most of our coaches keep them there but no I do not shift if they do I stayed at the point, The supervisor was right behind the backstop most of the time, I'm going to shift to the slot if it works for most it works its probably where I belong back there thanks for the help everyone, Its nice to have people there to help me learn

[Umpire in Chief]

@ I would work on using the slot more effectively. 

 

It will take time and the outside pitches are the toughest. It just takes practice, experience and good timing. 

 

As maven mentioned the further away from the slot you get the more likely you are to get hit. 

 

Here's an image I found online, but there is something similar floating around here.

 

[BigUmpire]

Tucker have you signed up for any clinics?

Think about it.

Money well spent.

[TStokes97]

Tucker have you signed up for any clinics?

Think about it.

Money well spent.

Im planning on it, this is my third year only my first year with a "real assocation" so im thinking about it now, wondering if there are any in my area

[BigUmpire]

 

Tucker have you signed up for any clinics?

Think about it.

Money well spent.

Im planning on it, this is my third year only my first year with a "real assocation" so im thinking about it now, wondering if there are any in my area

 

Have you asked Ken Hersey?

Or gone to http://www.refereeumpireschool.com/camps-clinics-and-more-informations-2/

 

This website states the following: Elite Umpire Clinics runs a several clinics in various parts of Pennsylvania. Contact Ron Whiting (304-777-0771 or wsport23@aol.com) or Mike Shields (412-303-5735 or tsbua1@gmail.com). Previous locations include Washington, Pennsylvania, and Wexford, Pennsylvania.

 

Wow this Google thing is great.

Seems to help old guys like me.

[BigUmpire]

You got a sister or cousin in Alaska OR relatives in St Louis?

[BigUmpire]

More:

https://www.umpireacademy.com/enroll.php

http://www.umpireschool.com/training_options.htm#twoweek

 

The best is: http://www.midamericanumpireclinic.com/information.html

It is in September of this year- GO!

This clinic will be a life changer.

Ask @MidAmUmp

[TStokes97]

Tucker have you signed up for any clinics?

Think about it.

Money well spent.

Im planning on it, this is my third year only my first year with a "real assocation" so im thinking about it now, wondering if there are any in my area

Have you asked Ken Hersey?

Or gone to http://www.refereeumpireschool.com/camps-clinics-and-more-informations-2/

This website states the following: Elite Umpire Clinics runs a several clinics in various parts of Pennsylvania. Contact Ron Whiting (304-777-0771 or wsport23@aol.com) or Mike Shields (412-303-5735 or tsbua1@gmail.com). Previous locations include Washington, Pennsylvania, and Wexford, Pennsylvania.

Wow this Google thing is great.

Seems to help old guys like me.Dang it, Really? I binged it and nothing I gotta go back to google I looked it up and nothing came up, how do you know Ken Hershey he works with my boss, sorry to make you look, my search for whatever reason lacked your results sorry

[BigUmpire]

I am telling you this NEW Google thing is better than my Motorola DynaTAC cell phone.

Wow Hope I can figure out what this little round thing with cord next to my keyboard is.

My grandson calls is a mouse BUT it looks electronic.

 

Its amazing what this WWW thing can tell you.

O well time for a fresh cup of coffee, sure do like this retractable cup holder on this here computer.

[TStokes97]

I am telling you this NEW Google thing is better than my Motorola DynaTAC cell phone.

Wow Hope I can figure out what this little round thing with cord next to my keyboard is.

My grandson calls is a mouse BUT it looks electronic.

Its amazing whan this WWW thing can tell you.

O well time for a fresh cup of coffee, sure do like this retractable cup holder on this here computer.

looks like im changing search engines 5 bing searches none of these came up,

[TStokes97]

Well looks like I might go to the LL williams sport clinic I got family there so I can certainly get to it :) :) :) :) :)

[D62 blue]

Is it "ok" to line up over the catcher, I do this as in the "slot" I cannot call the outside pitch properly while over the catcher I can see this but unlike most I CAN see the low pitch just fine from over the catcher, is this an ok place to line up?

This attachment should help you .

 

Marc

umpire slot mechanics.pdf

[Mark Pepper]

Good for you for planning to work the slot this weekend.  You probably know this, but focus on timing and be even more patient, especially on the outside pitch where you said you've had trouble in the slot.  I suspect you'll be surprised how many more strikes you get on the outside edge if you give yourself another half-second or so.  

[TStokes97]

In that graphic it shows one hand in front, I keep both behind me, is that ok?

[BigUmpire]

Well looks like I might go to the LL williams sport clinic I got family there so I can certainly get to it :) :) :) :) :)

Outstanding!

The one in Missouri is worth going to NEXT year.