5.1.1 Situation N

[grayhawk]

With R1 at third and F5 playing deep, B2 hits a ball that caroms off the base into foul territory where it touches R1.  RULING:  A runner who is hit by a batted fair ball in foul territory is not out and the ball remains live.

 

Sorry for the crappy Fed baserunner designations - just wanted to copy it word for word.

 

My question - what rules basis is there to make this interpretation?

[noumpere]

I think in all codes a runner is out if he's hit by a fair ball in fair territory.

 

See for example OBR 7.08 f:

He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory

 

 

 

and 7.09k:

A fair ball touches him on fair territory before touching a fielder

 

While it doesn't seem to be explicit in the FED rules, that's why they have the case.

[ALStripes17]

With R1 at third and F5 playing deep, B2 hits a ball that caroms off the base into foul territory where it touches R1. RULING: A runner who is hit by a batted fair ball in foul territory is not out and the ball remains live.

Sorry for the crappy Fed baserunner designations - just wanted to copy it word for word. My question - what rules basis is there to make this interpretation?

8-4-2k is the only thing I can see referring to in regards to the rule book. Runner is out when: Is contacted by a fair batted ball before it touches an infielder, or after it passes any infielder, except the pitcher, and the umpire is convinced that another infielder has a play. Batted ball is determined fair for playability when it hits the base; however is designated as 'foul' when over foul territory?

[maven]

Batted ball is determined fair for playability when it hits the base; however is designated as 'foul' when over foul territory?

 

Are you asking whether a fair ball that hits R3 when he's in foul territory becomes a foul ball? Why on earth would it?

 

The point of the case play is that it's not INT, and therefore not dead. Nobody thinks a fair ball can become foul. Live ball, play on.

[ALStripes17]

Batted ball is determined fair for playability when it hits the base; however is designated as 'foul' when over foul territory?

Are you asking whether a fair ball that hits R3 when he's in foul territory becomes a foul ball? Why on earth would it be?

The point of the case play is that it's not INT, and therefore not dead. Nobody thinks a fair ball can become foul. Live ball, play on.

Not at all. I am responding to Greys inquiry. By 'foul' ball, I meant 'a ball in foul territory' and was making the suggestion that THAT could be a way the play is interpreted.

[grayhawk]

 

Batted ball is determined fair for playability when it hits the base; however is designated as 'foul' when over foul territory?

 

Are you asking whether a fair ball that hits R3 when he's in foul territory becomes a foul ball? Why on earth would it?

 

The point of the case play is that it's not INT, and therefore not dead. Nobody thinks a fair ball can become foul. Live ball, play on.

 

 

Exactly.  This is a case play that @Magic texted me yesterday and I cannot find any support in the Fed rulebook for it.  There is no exception to interference because the ball hits the bag, nor because the runner is hit by a fair ball in foul territory.  @noumpere pointed out the OBR equivalent, but Fed, to my knowledge, doesn't have a corresponding rule.

 

Obviously, I would rule as the casebook requires, but I am always more comfortable when the case is directly supported by the rules.

[maven]

Exactly.  This is a case play that @Magic texted me yesterday and I cannot find any support in the Fed rulebook for it.  There is no exception to interference because the ball hits the bag, nor because the runner is hit by a fair ball in foul territory.  @noumpere pointed out the OBR equivalent, but Fed, to my knowledge, doesn't have a corresponding rule.

 

Obviously, I would rule as the casebook requires, but I am always more comfortable when the case is directly supported by the rules.

You might say that the clause "the umpire is convinced that another infielder has a play" supports this ruling. A fair ball that hits R3 in foul ground is not one on which F5 will have a play — indeed, hitting R3 might help rather than hinder the defense.

[grayhawk]

 

Exactly.  This is a case play that @Magic texted me yesterday and I cannot find any support in the Fed rulebook for it.  There is no exception to interference because the ball hits the bag, nor because the runner is hit by a fair ball in foul territory.  @noumpere pointed out the OBR equivalent, but Fed, to my knowledge, doesn't have a corresponding rule.

 

Obviously, I would rule as the casebook requires, but I am always more comfortable when the case is directly supported by the rules.

You might say that the clause "the umpire is convinced that another infielder has a play" supports this ruling. A fair ball that hits R3 in foul ground is not one on which F5 will have a play — indeed, hitting R3 might help rather than hinder the defense.

 

 

I considered that, but think it's reaching.  It might help the defense, or he might inadvertently kick it into the dugout.  Lots of things can certainly happen.

[noumpere]

 

 

Exactly.  This is a case play that @Magic texted me yesterday and I cannot find any support in the Fed rulebook for it.  There is no exception to interference because the ball hits the bag, nor because the runner is hit by a fair ball in foul territory.  @noumpere pointed out the OBR equivalent, but Fed, to my knowledge, doesn't have a corresponding rule.

 

Obviously, I would rule as the casebook requires, but I am always more comfortable when the case is directly supported by the rules.

You might say that the clause "the umpire is convinced that another infielder has a play" supports this ruling. A fair ball that hits R3 in foul ground is not one on which F5 will have a play — indeed, hitting R3 might help rather than hinder the defense.

 

 

I considered that, but think it's reaching.  It might help the defense, or he might inadvertently kick it into the dugout.  Lots of things can certainly happen.

 

And since that clause is dependent on "passing an infielder other than the pitcher", it doesn't really apply anyway.

[maven]

Exactly. This is a case play that @Magic texted me yesterday and I cannot find any support in the Fed rulebook for it. There is no exception to interference because the ball hits the bag, nor because the runner is hit by a fair ball in foul territory. @noumpere pointed out the OBR equivalent, but Fed, to my knowledge, doesn't have a corresponding rule.

Obviously, I would rule as the casebook requires, but I am always more comfortable when the case is directly supported by the rules.

You might say that the clause "the umpire is convinced that another infielder has a play" supports this ruling. A fair ball that hits R3 in foul ground is not one on which F5 will have a play — indeed, hitting R3 might help rather than hinder the defense.

I considered that, but think it's reaching. It might help the defense, or he might inadvertently kick it into the dugout. Lots of things can certainly happen.

And since that clause is dependent on "passing an infielder other than the pitcher", it doesn't really apply anyway.

It is not dependent on that phrase alone, but on the whole disjunction. And so it might well apply.

[noumpere]

 

 

And since that clause is dependent on "passing an infielder other than the pitcher", it doesn't really apply anyway.

 

It is not dependent on that phrase alone, but on the whole disjunction. And so it might well apply.

 

I have no idea what a "disjunction" is.  But, the clause is not going to apply to the OP.

[maven]

 

 

 

And since that clause is dependent on "passing an infielder other than the pitcher", it doesn't really apply anyway.

 

It is not dependent on that phrase alone, but on the whole disjunction. And so it might well apply.

 

I have no idea what a "disjunction" is.  But, the clause is not going to apply to the OP.

 

 

The other part is: touches a runner before touching an infielder. And that, presumably, does apply to the OP, since the ball hit R3 before getting to an infielder.