Darkness suspension to be continued?

[Guest Shawn]

After 4 complete innings, Home team leads.  In the top of the 5th, visiting team takes the lead.  At the end of the half inning, umpire states 'I'll leave it up to the managers to decide what you want to do - it's getting dark."  Managers and umpire agree to pick up play prior to their next meeting.

 

Later, Home manager realizes had they followed the official rules the game would be over and home team wins, which is what he's now requesting. Should game be resumed?

 

Minors Division.

[elares]

League officials step in and correct the error of the umpire.  Home team wins.  No resumption.  This is my dream of an assertive and informed Board of Directors.  HAhahahahahaha

[UmpJM]

Shawn,

 

1. The umpire should not have "left it up to the managers". That's dereliction of duty. (It's fine to listen to their input, but it's the umpire's responsibility to decide when the game should suspend because of conditions, and he has the sole authority to do so.)

 

2. Whether the game is declared a win, loss, tie, or suspended game, and how that counts in the standings, is a matter of concern for the league/conference. It is not the umpire's concern.

 

JM

[BigUmpire]

League officials step in and correct the error of the umpire.  Home team wins.  No resumption.  This is my dream of an assertive and informed Board of Directors.  HAhahahahahaha

"HAhahahahahaha" is right!

That would require backbone. Nope.

[baseballfan]

Game should be resumed per Official Baseball Rule 4.12

[elares]

It appears we would benefit from knowing the setting: Little League?  PONY? FED? What?

From the description "Minors Division" I'm guessing Little League.

Is that you Shawn?  From SoCal?

[Rich Ives]

If it's Little League it's an official game by rule. It's over. Score reverts to the end of the 4th.  It's in the rule book. No gnashing of teeth or contentions meetings needed.

[Guest Shawn]

It is Little League.  We have mostly Volunteer Umpires.  In this particular case, none of the 3 (umpire and the 2 managers) understood the rule correctly.  The concern I have is once the umpire does turn it over to the Coaches, does the rule still hold?  Wouldn't it be similar to MLB admitting an ump made a mistake on a call, but staying with it since you can't really hit rewind on a game?  No telling how it would have played out had the urgency to complete the inning been stated.

[Rich Ives]

Shawn.  The game went 4 innings.  It's official.  There's nothing to decide.

[BigUmpire]

"Volunteer Umpires" ---Nuff said.

[ALStripes17]

Aren't all Little League games volunteer umpires?

[BigUmpire]

Aren't all Little League games volunteer umpires?

Nope.

[semper_fi_72]

Aren't all Little League games volunteer umpires?

Nope

Right now I am booked Monday - Thursday night and all day Saturday and smiling all the way to the BANK.

[ALStripes17]

Ahh, did some quick research. I guess each chapter can do what they want but recruiting volunteers is encouraged.

Yeah, with the knowledge needed for games at any level, it's surprising to find many volunteers in one place that know their stuff and can call an uneventful game

[Thunderheads]

 

Aren't all Little League games volunteer umpires?

Nope

Right now I am booked Monday - Thursday night and all day Saturday and smiling all the way to the BANK.

 

that's a lot of games coming of surgery isn't it Lou?! Don't get too excited and tweak something!

[semper_fi_72]

It is Little League.  We have mostly Volunteer Umpires.  In this particular case, none of the 3 (umpire and the 2 managers) understood the rule correctly.  The concern I have is once the umpire does turn it over to the Coaches, does the rule still hold?  Wouldn't it be similar to MLB admitting an ump made a mistake on a call, but staying with it since you can't really hit rewind on a game?  No telling how it would have played out had the urgency to complete the inning been stated.

Your First problem is the 2 Managers.

Obviously they have not read the Rule Book or the Local Rules.

 

The correct response from a umpire, which would be my response.

This game is over due to darkness.

Check with you Board of Directors for any final determination of the game.

 

Your Second problem is "URGENCY" to complete the inning.

Get your players on and off the field in one minute and play ball.

Get the kids all the baseball game you can.

Every inning should have a sense of Urgency to get played.

 

To many lazy and UN-knowledgeable Managers, Coaches and Umpires when it comes to game management.

[BigUmpire]

 

 

Aren't all Little League games volunteer umpires?

Nope

Right now I am booked Monday - Thursday night and all day Saturday and smiling all the way to the BANK.

 

that's a lot of games coming of surgery isn't it Lou?! Don't get too excited and tweak something!

 

Remember you are taking to a Marine.

[Larry in TN]

Ahh, did some quick research. I guess each chapter can do what they want but recruiting volunteers is encouraged.

Yeah, with the knowledge needed for games at any level, it's surprising to find many volunteers in one place that know their stuff and can call an uneventful game

 

Our league has over 1500 kids enrolled and about 75 umpires.  Not sure how you could possibly get that many volunteers.  Pay starts at $20/gm for PeeWee and reaches around $45/40 PU/BU for Major and above.

[BigUmpire]

 

Ahh, did some quick research. I guess each chapter can do what they want but recruiting volunteers is encouraged.

Yeah, with the knowledge needed for games at any level, it's surprising to find many volunteers in one place that know their stuff and can call an uneventful game

 

Our league has over 1500 kids enrolled and about 75 umpires.  Not sure how you could possibly get that many volunteers.  Pay starts at $20/gm for PeeWee and reaches around $45/40 PU/BU for Major and above.

 

Do they pay scorekeepers?

One of our local, well run, leagues here pays the scorekeepers.

They are a part of the Umpires group.

The league just adds it the cost to the registration fees of the players.

Parents vote on it every year. Always passes.

[semper_fi_72]

 

 

 

Aren't all Little League games volunteer umpires?

Nope

Right now I am booked Monday - Thursday night and all day Saturday and smiling all the way to the BANK.

 

that's a lot of games coming of surgery isn't it Lou?! Don't get too excited and tweak something!

 

Remember you are taking to a Marine.

 

Ohhhhh Raaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

I have the Bases tonight on a Major game.

Tomorrow night Bases on a 50/70 and Junior game.

Wednesday Bases on a Senior game.

Thursday Bases on Two 50/70 games.

Saturday Bases on Senior game then I will sit and score two games.

First plate back will be next Tuesday.

 

I have less pain now then I have had when I have been healthy in the past.

Will be watching myself though and ensuring I don't over do it.

My Doctor agreed with my plan and I have been doing my PT every day.

 

But I am pretty much booked Mon-Thurs and Sat through April and am getting games in May already

43 games through April right now.

[semper_fi_72]

 

 

Ahh, did some quick research. I guess each chapter can do what they want but recruiting volunteers is encouraged.

Yeah, with the knowledge needed for games at any level, it's surprising to find many volunteers in one place that know their stuff and can call an uneventful game

 

Our league has over 1500 kids enrolled and about 75 umpires.  Not sure how you could possibly get that many volunteers.  Pay starts at $20/gm for PeeWee and reaches around $45/40 PU/BU for Major and above.

 

Do they pay scorekeepers?

 

One of our local, well run, leagues here pays the scorekeepers.

 

They are a part of the Umpires group.

 

The league just adds it the cost to the registration fees of the players.

 

Parents vote on it every year. Always passes.

 

The league I am working with is also a very large league.

50/70 and above is all Inter District.

They do a great job of fund raising each year and never have any issues with funds for anything.

This league is paying Umpires, Score Keepers and Snack Bar workers.

I won't mention pay amounts but it is equal to if not better than already stated.

 

With the pay and the fact they like me and let me pretty much have first shot at the schedule.

They have me for their season.

[Larry in TN]

Do they pay scorekeepers?

 

No.  The home team is responsible for keeping the official book.  The official pitch-count is kept each inning by the base umpire with a click-counter.  At the end of each half-inning, or at a pitching change, he tells both sides the official count then resets his counter for the next pitcher.  In my experience, they're wrong about 25% of the time because they have more important things to do than keep up with the pitch count.  (My guess is they accidentally hit the counter on pick-off throws as they are usually a pitch too high when they're wrong)

 

Nobody has a clue how to keep a book or do stats.  I taught myself with some web sites, wikipedia, and the rule book.  GameChanger is great for the average scorer though it can't fix a lack of understanding of chapter 10.00.  It's very close, though.  A few more improvements and I'll switch over.

[semper_fi_72]

 

Do they pay scorekeepers?

 

No.  The home team is responsible for keeping the official book.  The official pitch-count is kept each inning by the base umpire with a click-counter.  At the end of each half-inning, or at a pitching change, he tells both sides the official count then resets his counter for the next pitcher.  In my experience, they're wrong about 25% of the time because they have more important things to do than keep up with the pitch count.  (My guess is they accidentally hit the counter on pick-off throws as they are usually a pitch too high when they're wrong)

 

Nobody has a clue how to keep a book or do stats.  I taught myself with some web sites, wikipedia, and the rule book.  GameChanger is great for the average scorer though it can't fix a lack of understanding of chapter 10.00.  It's very close, though.  A few more improvements and I'll switch over.

 

Make the Visiting Team responsible for pitch count and make the score keeper and pitch counter sit together.

Should never be a umpires responsibility.

[BigUmpire]

Do they pay scorekeepers?

 

No.  The home team is responsible for keeping the official book.  The official pitch-count is kept each inning by the base umpire with a click-counter.  At the end of each half-inning, or at a pitching change, he tells both sides the official count then resets his counter for the next pitcher.  In my experience, they're wrong about 25% of the time because they have more important things to do than keep up with the pitch count.  (My guess is they accidentally hit the counter on pick-off throws as they are usually a pitch too high when they're wrong) Never!

 

Nobody has a clue how to keep a book or do stats.  I taught myself with some web sites, wikipedia, and the rule book.  GameChanger is great for the average scorer though it can't fix a lack of understanding of chapter 10.00.  It's very close, though.  A few more improvements and I'll switch over.

Make the Visiting Team responsible for pitch count and make the score keeper and pitch counter sit together.

Should never be a umpires responsibility.

[Larry in TN]

Make the Visiting Team responsible for pitch count and make the score keeper and pitch counter sit together.

 

Should never be a umpires responsibility.

 

No argument from me, but I have no authority to make changes.  I'm just a parent and assistant-assistant-coach who does the scoring for my son's teams.  When I'm appointed official scorer for tournament games it gets done correctly.

 

Visiting team is currently responsible for providing an adult (12 yrs or older) to operate the scoreboard.  What we usually get is some random kids running it as the coaches don't make sure that they have a parent running it.  I think the main reason they have the base-umpire do it is so that there aren't any disagreements or accusations of favoritism.

[JaxRolo]

Do they pay scorekeepers?

No. The home team is responsible for keeping the official book. The official pitch-count is kept each inning by the base umpire with a click-counter. At the end of each half-inning, or at a pitching change, he tells both sides the official count then resets his counter for the next pitcher. In my experience, they're wrong about 25% of the time because they have more important things to do than keep up with the pitch count. (My guess is they accidentally hit the counter on pick-off throws as they are usually a pitch too high when they're wrong)

Nobody has a clue how to keep a book or do stats. I taught myself with some web sites, wikipedia, and the rule book. GameChanger is great for the average scorer though it can't fix a lack of understanding of chapter 10.00. It's very close, though. A few more improvements and I'll switch over.

Make the Visiting Team responsible for pitch count and make the score keeper and pitch counter sit together.

Should never be a umpires responsibility.

Agree. No way an umpire should be keeping count.