Prepare for 2014: Play 5

[Haid D' Salaami]

 

Fed - R2 is safe.  Hurdling is permitted 8.4.2.b.2.

 

Assuming the BR had acquired 1st at the time of THROW, he would be awarded 3B. 8.3.3.c.2

 

F2 was not lying on the ground. So an out can be called.

 

BUT, Why don't we have obstruction here since F2 didn't have possession of the ball and is blocking the base path.

 

If a fielder has to be in position to field a throw or batted ball and must do by blocking a base, he can. But he must be in the act of fielding the throw.. ( umpire judgment)

[Pete Peterson Sr]

You are only looking at the hurdle portion. Look at the whole play.

f2 obstructs the runner which causes the runner to hurdle. It's F2's fault.

 

 So if he plowed F2, it is the fielder's fault ? If F2 is obstructing, that doesn't cause the runner to drop him, nor does it cause him to hurdle, IMO. Err on the side of safety, call the out.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

 

 

Fed - R2 is safe.  Hurdling is permitted 8.4.2.b.2.

 

Assuming the BR had acquired 1st at the time of THROW, he would be awarded 3B. 8.3.3.c.2

 

F2 was not lying on the ground. So an out can be called.

 

BUT, Why don't we have obstruction here since F2 didn't have possession of the ball and is blocking the base path.

 

If a fielder has to be in position to field a throw or batted ball and must do by blocking a base, he can. But he must be in the act of fielding the throw.. ( umpire judgment)

 

In Fed, the fielder is required to have possession of the ball to block a base. "In the act" is  considered obstruction, in Fed, as opposed to OBR.

[ricka56]

 

 

Fed - R2 is safe.  Hurdling is permitted 8.4.2.b.2.

 

Assuming the BR had acquired 1st at the time of THROW, he would be awarded 3B. 8.3.3.c.2

 

F2 was not lying on the ground. So an out can be called.

 

BUT, Why don't we have obstruction here since F2 didn't have possession of the ball and is blocking the base path.

If a fielder has to be in position to field a throw or batted ball and must do by blocking a base, he can. But he must be in the act of fielding the throw.. ( umpire judgment)

 

We're mixing up rule code now.

 

Fed - interference/DB/BR returned to 1B

OBR - no interference/place runners TOT

NCAA - ???

[conbo61]

 

I done remember reading anywhere that hurdling supersedes obs

Fed CB 8.4.2.S   F4 is in the baseline without the ball (a) on both knees or (b) bending over. R1 hurdles, jumps, leaps or dives over F4. RULING: In (a) and (b), obstruction is ignored. If the runner hurdles, jumps or dives over the fielder, he shall be declared out. These illegal acts supersede obstruction.

 

 

 

This is the kind of language I would like to see added to THE RULE and not just in the case book.

[ALStripes17]

 

 

I done remember reading anywhere that hurdling supersedes obs

Fed CB 8.4.2.S   F4 is in the baseline without the ball (a) on both knees or (b) bending over. R1 hurdles, jumps, leaps or dives over F4. RULING: In (a) and (b), obstruction is ignored. If the runner hurdles, jumps or dives over the fielder, he shall be declared out. These illegal acts supersede obstruction.

 

 

 

This is the kind of language I would like to see added to THE RULE and not just in the case book.

 

 

This post makes me want to venture out and say, "Safety rules ALWAYS supercede in FED."

 

Does anyone have a counterpoint to this?  I cannot find one.

[JaxRolo]

Which on is safer? Hurdling or plowing the fielder? 

[ALStripes17]

Which on is safer? Hurdling or plowing the fielder? 

No stirring necessary - chicken's done.

 

Hurdling is safer...  which is why plowing a fielder also comes with an ejection.

 

More harmful = more consequences

[conbo61]

 

 

 

I done remember reading anywhere that hurdling supersedes obs

Fed CB 8.4.2.S   F4 is in the baseline without the ball (a) on both knees or (b) bending over. R1 hurdles, jumps, leaps or dives over F4. RULING: In (a) and (b), obstruction is ignored. If the runner hurdles, jumps or dives over the fielder, he shall be declared out. These illegal acts supersede obstruction.

 

 

 

This is the kind of language I would like to see added to THE RULE and not just in the case book.

 

 

This post makes me want to venture out and say, "Safety rules ALWAYS supercede in FED."

 

Does anyone have a counterpoint to this?  I cannot find one.

 

 

I understand your point, but it seems like they clarify one situation, but are ambiguous on a similar situation. The language in the CASE BOOK is abundantly clear.  Why not add it to the rule?  

 

You can de-fuse a situation (in a close contest) with the phrase "BY RULE..." rather than "In case 8.4.2.S of the case book..."

[ALStripes17]

 

 

 

 

I done remember reading anywhere that hurdling supersedes obs

Fed CB 8.4.2.S   F4 is in the baseline without the ball (a) on both knees or (b) bending over. R1 hurdles, jumps, leaps or dives over F4. RULING: In (a) and (b), obstruction is ignored. If the runner hurdles, jumps or dives over the fielder, he shall be declared out. These illegal acts supersede obstruction.

 

 

 

This is the kind of language I would like to see added to THE RULE and not just in the case book.

 

 

This post makes me want to venture out and say, "Safety rules ALWAYS supercede in FED."

 

Does anyone have a counterpoint to this?  I cannot find one.

 

 

I understand your point, but it seems like they clarify one situation, but are ambiguous on a similar situation. The language in the CASE BOOK is abundantly clear.  Why not add it to the rule?  

 

You can de-fuse a situation (in a close contest) with the phrase "BY RULE..." rather than "In case 8.4.2.S of the case book..."

 

 

That's why the CASE BOOK exists.  It is considered just as powerful as the RULE BOOK.

 

The explanation required is "Coach, this is a safety rule, your runner is out."

[ricka56]

Which on is safer? Hurdling or plowing the fielder? 

Which is more dangerous ? A botched hurdle or a botched plowing the fielder?

 

If R2 was good at hurdling wouldn't he be on the track team ?

 

The rule isn't there for the good hurdler, it's there for the bad hurdler.

[grayhawk]

GREAT discussion here - sorry to be late to the party.  Here's something funny when you think about it.  LL is supposed to be very safety conscious.  However, hurdling or jumping over a fielder is perfectly legal in their rules.  I suppose diving is also legal as long as it's not considered to be a head first slide.

[SoCal Lurker]

GREAT discussion here - sorry to be late to the party.  Here's something funny when you think about it.  LL is supposed to be very safety conscious.  However, hurdling or jumping over a fielder is perfectly legal in their rules.  I suppose diving is also legal as long as it's not considered to be a head first slide.

 

LL, like most places, adopts rules to address a problem (or percieved problem).  If no one is seeing actual hurdling take place and be an issue, there is unlikely to be any momentum to create a rule.  (And it isn't entirely surprising, as LL players are younger and less likely to think of trying to hurdle than older HS players.)  If you see someone get hurt from hurdling in next year's LLWS, I'm sure you will very quickly see a LL hurdling rule . . .