Comments?

[thunder6661980]

Hi guys,

 

Being in my first year, I would like to know what you think of my first EJ for arguing balls and strikes...

 

Men's league, bottom of 7th (last inning) no issues at all with my strike zone during the game. After I called a belt high pitch on the corner, the hitter mumbles something that I don't hear. He steps back in and swings at a third strike. He then says: "That was f***ing bullSH*# call" loud enough for the on-deck batter to hear. That's when I ejected him.

 

What do you guys think? Would you have given a warning first?

 

Thanks.

[scrounge]

Perfectly fine for HS and below, unless really yelled loudly maybe too quick for Adult but that's just me. Not outrageously quick, certainly defensible, but not sure I'd boot him just for that. I'd be more likely to warn or, depending on the situation and my rapport/relationship, say something like "you might want to swing then, cause if he throws it again it's still going to be a strike".

[grozzly]

 

 

What do you guys think? Would you have given a warning first?

 

 

Surely not.....Good job.

[UmpJeff]

I work a lot of men's league games here in Michigan.

 

Because most of the players are former college and ex-MiLB guys and it's somewhat competitive, I give them a little more rope with respect to their language unless it's personal.  Having said that, I probably would have issued a stern warning for a "That was f***ing bullSH*# call" instead of an immediate EJ.

 

Now, in an 18U game or below, I would have immediately ejected. 

[thunder6661980]

Thanks for the comments. Since it wasn't personal, I agree that I might have jumped the gun a bit....Being a first year umpire after over 20 years as a player, I know realize that game management is the hardest part of umpiring by far. All I can say is that I am learning a lot

[Magic]

Yeah that might have been a little quick. I don't do a lot of Men's League anymore. But when you are first starting out, it really teaches you patience, and game control. You can say things in a Men's League game, as an umpire, that you would never be able to get away with in a U18 or below game. But it is a great learning experience I think every umpire, who wants to get into High School Baseball and above, should go through. It will make you a better umpire. 

 

That being said, after a year or 2 of it, most Umpires will have enough of it. Just my opinion.

[zm1283]

A summer men's league?  Goodbye.  My tolerance for B.S. in the summer is quite a bit lower than during the spring.  

[thunder6661980]

We don't have much baseball here in Canada. It's mostly one season (May until September) for all levels... I wish I could umpire all year long!

[Replacematt]

I'd lean towards not doing anything immediately. He'll either shut up or hang himself. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with warning him, but warnings from inexperienced guys at this level tend to aggravate the situation, because they tend to either be too passive or too aggressive. If he's walking away from you as he says it, let it go for the time being. If he's doing something visibly assertive (walking towards you, staying in the box to argue,) you may tell him to knock it off.

[BigUmp56]

Umpires new to mens leagues, and even college ball, need to learn the difference between the following when it comes to good game management,

 

"That's a bullSH*# call."

 

-and-

 

"You're a bullSH*# umpire."

 

Number one can be dealt with without having to eject. A nice long glare at the player usually sends the message that you heard him and he's now on a short rope. You can issue a "knock it off warning", if you've been around long enough that they know you're a no nonsense umpire. But as Matt said, it's an advanced technique that I wouldn'tI recommend to younger, newer umpires.

 

Number two is a no brainer at any level.

 

 

Tim.

[thunder6661980]

Thanks a lot for your comments BigUmp56 and Matt. Very helpful.

[UMP45]

Sometimes a "quick trigger" can help down the road.

[BigUmp56]

Sometimes a "quick trigger" can help down the road.

Amen to that.  Eject early and eject often so you won't have many ejections later.

 

 

Tim

[dumbdumb]

Well, here are a Hall of Famer's thoughts on ejections.

 

"Though it's very bad to eject a player when he shouldn't be ejected, it's far worse to keep someone in the game who should be ejected."

 

 

The age old question for a newcomer--when should I and when shouldn't I pull the trigger as part of game management.

 

 

IMHO and from reading on the subject,

It takes absolutely no guts, bravery or courage to just sit there and be a punching bag for all the players snide comments and cheap shots throughout the game. Anyone can just sit there and take abuse all day. Simple, just let them scream and yell and show the umpire up all game long. Eventually the game ends. That's so easy it is just pathetic.

The real part of the job is letting them know you are not going to be a punching bag all day long and are not going to sit back and take their cheap shots all game long. Does anyone enjoy throwing a player or manager or coach out. No. But just like calling balls and strikes and safes and outs, it is part of the duties of the umpire and must be addressed when the situation arises. Many times, with the older players, you only earn their respect after you have tossed them. They are just playing a game to see how far they can press the envelope and pick on the umpire.

It is much easier to take an umpire who is a little high strung and bring them down a bit with experience, then it is to take a wall flower and light a fire under them from what I have read.

 

Probably the best that you can hope for in your career in dealing with players, coaches and managers, which is an adversarial role,  is to have the players telling each other when they talk about you and your player relations is to hear them say, you can talk to him, but you cannot f$$$ with him.

 

Good luck, experience is a big teacher.

[immaculate1976]

Because most of the players are former college and ex-MiLB guys and it's somewhat competitive, I give them a little more rope with respect to their language unless it's personal.  Having said that, I probably would have issued a stern warning for a "That was f***ing bullSH*# call" instead of an immediate EJ.

 

Now, in an 18U game or below, I would have immediately ejected. 

 

I have never understood why umps think this way? If I am doing a game F**K YOU is the same coming from a 12 year old as a 40 year old. If you cuss me it is crossing that line and if anything an adult should know better.

[Replacematt]

 

Because most of the players are former college and ex-MiLB guys and it's somewhat competitive, I give them a little more rope with respect to their language unless it's personal.  Having said that, I probably would have issued a stern warning for a "That was f***ing bullSH*# call" instead of an immediate EJ.

 

Now, in an 18U game or below, I would have immediately ejected. 

 

I have never understood why umps think this way? If I am doing a game F**K YOU is the same coming from a 12 year old as a 40 year old. If you cuss me it is crossing that line and if anything an adult should know better.

 

 

Given your post, I think you don't see the difference between a comment directed at you and one directed at the call.

[Umpiresoftball]

Don't feel like you did anything wrong. Just cause there older  and more comeptivie does not give them a right to be like that.  Now i understand what people are saying. But i think your ejection is spot on.

 

Matt- i don't agree with that for the fact they older and know better. In other words the kids don't i never really had any issues with calling stirkes/balls in softball

[Replacematt]

Don't feel like you did anything wrong. Just cause there older  and more comeptivie does not give them a right to be like that.  Now i understand what people are saying. But i think your ejection is spot on.

 

Matt- i don't agree with that for the fact they older and know better. In other words the kids don't i never really had any issues with calling stirkes/balls in softball

 

I'm going to say this again, as I've said this in another thread. If you eject for swearing in an adult game, it will be the first and last game you work at that level.

[thunder6661980]

I agree that if the comment is directed at me, than he's gone.

 

I think I read somewhere here that the one of the easiest trigger word in an ejection is "you". As soon as a player/manager says it, he has one foot in the parking lot... I think a stern warning would have been more appropriate. If I would eject players evertime they swear, filling reports would be my full-time job!

[Stan W.]

when dealing with adult and higher level ball.......

 

"thats  a f'ing bulls^&t call".......by its self, not an ejectable offense.......(Yet..., met with a "thats enough".....they can still go too far, but then thats on them)

"you are F'ing bulls^%t"...........gone immediately....

 

One is a complaint about the call..........and one is a personal attack.......and yes, "you" is the trigger........for those of you who have not been exposed to higher than HS baseball, I can see where you might think that profanity alone is an ejectable offense.......above that level its a fact of life...and you had better be able to filter what is and what is not directed at you.... I have experience with one DIII coach who cant get through a sentence with at least 10 vulgarities.....

 

If you are going to make any career of higher baseball, this is one thing you will have to adapt your game management skills around...........

[RichMSN]

In an adult game, I'm probably walking in the other direction and he's saying that to my back.  If he decides to persist, then he's going to have a problem.

[celt62]

I don't know about anybody else but I have a shorter leash with adult summer ball such as the Hobbs' leagues and so on.  I would have made it very clear with a loud "enough!"  and next word out of his mouth and he would have been run.  But a lot of these guys still think they can play like they did in college or whatever level they played (which they can't anymore, it's the curse of getting older) and another portion watch too much tv and think they can do what they see the pros do.  Pick and choose your fights.

[Phadnis]

How I would have handled it (umpiring in the same league as original poster):

 

Scenario 1:

B: that was a forking bullsiht call! (loud enough for On Deck dude to hear)

PU: *take off mask* "Sir, you have hurt my feelings!" (a tiny bit louder than him, with a tiny little sniff as though you're holding back tears)

 

If he then says, Fork you and fork your feelings = Ejection

If he walks away, somewhat confused but silent = problem solved.

 

Scenario 2:

B: that was a forking bullsiht call! (loud enough for On Deck dude to hear)

PU: *take off mask, look at outside corner, shrug* "Matter of opeenyohn" (in your best Cajun Man voice)

 

If he then said, Fork you and fork your stupid voices

PU: "Grounds for Eejecsheeyon!" (then toss the dude)

 

If I can't make them laugh while diffusing the seetuwaesheeyon, then at least I can have a good story for post game beers with buddies.

[mstaylor]

If it is loud enough that I feel I need to shut it down I simply say,"Easy." If he wants to lose his mind over easy then the ejection is just as easy. 

[immaculate1976]

 

 

Because most of the players are former college and ex-MiLB guys and it's somewhat competitive, I give them a little more rope with respect to their language unless it's personal.  Having said that, I probably would have issued a stern warning for a "That was f***ing bullSH*# call" instead of an immediate EJ.

 

Now, in an 18U game or below, I would have immediately ejected. 

 

I have never understood why umps think this way? If I am doing a game F**K YOU is the same coming from a 12 year old as a 40 year old. If you cuss me it is crossing that line and if anything an adult should know better.

 

 

Given your post, I think you don't see the difference between a comment directed at you and one directed at the call.

 

 

If the ump makes the call how is there a difference?