Another One

[Typhoon]

This is the second one this year, I must be getting crabby in my old age.

U14, B1 takes a belt high fastball down the middle for 3rd strike. I rang him up and he turned and looked at me and mumbled something. I said "I beg your pardon", He started to walk away then turned back and said "you heard me, that was crap" I then dumped him. Not a peep from the dugout. After the game I was changing at my truck and his manager happened to be parked next to me and he said that the kid deserved it and that he was a bit of a hothead. Then we had a very cordial 5 minute chat about of all things baseball, and no more mention of the game which they lost or the EJ. Go figure.

 

Tony

[BigUmp56]

If he mumbles something you didn't hear and then walks away, why bait him into turning around and causing problems. Just let the kid walk away next time............

 

JMO

 

Tim.

[JaxRolo]

Agree if you didn't hear it let him walk away.

[Celerion]

Sometimes players/coaches just "need to go", and all they need you to do is "validate" their one way ticket on the parking lot train.

If you are dealing with an attitude and you have a valid reason/s to eject, all aboard. Especially if a warning was given.

[BigUmp56]

I think there needs to be a clear understanding of dealing with an attitude versus a player doing something ejection worthy. If I were to eject players and coaches just because they had a bad attitude, I would have ejection totals of over 100 a season. Them simply having a bad attitude is not reason enough for us to ever bait a player or coach into an argument. It's been often said that enough trouble will find you on the diamond, so you don't need to go looking for it.

 

This is NOT aimed at the OP, but there has been a big problem amongst our ranks when it comes to attitudes. I see way too many of my fellow umpires show up to a game just looking for a fight. I don't know why that it, but I see it way too often. Maybe they had a bad day at work, or maybe their dog pooped in their best penny-loafers, but for whatever reason, they bring a negative attitude to the game. In my mind, this is unacceptable, and casts us all in a bad light. We should strive to keep players and coaches in the game, if at all possible. When they gotta go, they gotta go, but we should approach the game with a smile on our face and a fairly cordial attitude. Giving warnings at plate meetings, telling coaches how to act PRIOR to the game starting, and baiting both coaches and players into ejecting themselves are things that need to come to an end.

 

 

Tim.

[Umpiresoftball]

So if the manager thinks he needed that why didn't he/she sit him out?

[mstaylor]

Because he can play and he doesn't want to deal with mom and dad. 

[grayhawk]

I think there needs to be a clear understanding of dealing with an attitude versus a player doing something ejection worthy. If I were to eject players and coaches just because they had a bad attitude, I would have ejection totals of over 100 a season. Them simply having a bad attitude is not reason enough for us to ever bait a player or coach into an argument. It's been often said that enough trouble will find you on the diamond, so you don't need to go looking for it.

 

This is NOT aimed at the OP, but there has been a big problem amongst our ranks when it comes to attitudes. I see way too many of my fellow umpires show up to a game just looking for a fight. I don't know why that it, but I see it way too often. Maybe they had a bad day at work, or maybe their dog pooped in their best penny-loafers, but for whatever reason, they bring a negative attitude to the game. In my mind, this is unacceptable, and casts us all in a bad light. We should strive to keep players and coaches in the game, if at all possible. When they gotta go, they gotta go, but we should approach the game with a smile on our face and a fairly cordial attitude. Giving warnings at plate meetings, telling coaches how to act PRIOR to the game starting, and baiting both coaches and players into ejecting themselves are things that need to come to an end.

 

 

Tim.

 

Tim, I agree with the above except for "we should strive to keep players and coaches in the game."  Here's what I strive to do each and every game:

 

- Look the part - be sharp dressed and professional

- Hustle - show everyone that I am working hard

- Be in the best possible position for every call

- Get every call right

- Apply the rules correctly and in the spirit of fair play

- Be a great partner (if I have one)

- Manage the game to the best of my ability (be professional and approachable)

- Handle situations well - keep it brief, to-the-point, honest, direct, and unemotional

 

I suppose you can say that by doing all of the above, I am striving to keep everyone in the game, which may be your point anyway - in which case, I agree with you.

 

If I do the above, even if I do happen to make an incorrect call, and a coach or player commits an ejectable offense, then I am only going to strive to get them to leave the park as soon as possible so we can get the game going.

 

In any case, I don't give even one thought to keeping anyone in the game when I start.  My assumption is that everyone staying in the game is exactly what will happen, which is the case almost all of the time.

[BigUmp56]

You're right in line with what I'm talking about. We'll get enough ejections even when we're at our best. It comes with the territory. But we shouldn't cause ejections by using poor game management techinques, lazy mechanics, and being rude the coaches and players. I'll give you a prime example of what I'm talking about.

I worked a high level tournament with a guy a number of years ago. This guy was always in a hurry to get the game over and get on down the road. As the two teams were changing sides on a half inning, he started yelling at the outfielders to run to their positions. Apparently they weren't moving fast enough for this jerk, and with one sweep of his arm, he ejected all three of the team's starting outfielders. THE ENTIRE OUTFIELD!! There was nothing I could do but cringe. Needless to say, I now refuse to work with this guy again, but he kept on working games. All the while being a complete prick to everyone. The sad thing is that he's not alone in this kind of behaviour.

Tim.

[immaculate1976]

I do the same as OP if player or manager mumbles I say excuse me. I figure this is my way of saying hey you are pushing it. If they are dumb enough to turn around and repeat it see ya

[afaber12]

I think there's the potential for that to lead to two possible reasons to eject. Not only is there the eject when the player turns around and repeats what was mumbled - low enough that it wasn't heard the first time - but there's the potential that if the player doesn't respond because he realises that he was flirting with danger ("Maybe I said it too loud and he did hear it."), that the umpire might decide that now the player's ignoring him, and toss him for not following an umpire's direction. It shouldn't happen but I know there are guys out there who would, as evidenced by the umpire who helped the coach sub in a "quicker" outfield two posts up.

 

If you think its appropriate to do more than either ignore it completely or stare daggers into the back of his head as he walks away, and let the dugout tell him he's in trouble - he's been doing enough to niggle but not enough to warn yet - then perhaps actually warn him with a "that's enough/knock it off". But if you didn't hear the words he used, even that could be what triggers an eject trigger: "I was angry at me and telling myself off, you stupid old fart! Jeez get a hearing aid!"

 

Every so often I umpire a team entirely made up of Koreans, who rather than use signals speak Korean (I assume its Korean) to each other. I don't speak any Korean. If I've just made a call against the Koreans, and their saying something angrily, I'm not going to automatically assume its directed at me, let alone that its offensive/abusive/etc. They start gesturing at me, that becomes a different story. Unless I hear and understand the words used, then as far as I'm concerned it may as well be the teacher in Charlie Brown speaking.

[Kevin_K]

As a wise veteran told me when I first started in the umpire business.... Don't go looking for trouble. You will always find it.

[grayhawk]

You're right in line with what I'm talking about. We'll get enough ejections even when we're at our best. It comes with the territory. But we shouldn't cause ejections by using poor game management techinques, lazy mechanics, and being rude the coaches and players. I'll give you a prime example of what I'm talking about.

 

I worked a high level tournament with a guy a number of years ago. This guy was always in a hurry to get the game over and get on down the road. As the two teams were changing sides on a half inning, he started yelling at the outfielders to run to their positions. Apparently they weren't moving fast enough for this jerk, and with one sweep of his arm, he ejected all three of the team's starting outfielders. THE ENTIRE OUTFIELD!! There was nothing I could do but cringe. Needless to say, I now refuse to work with this guy again, but he keeps on working games. All the while being a complete prick to everyone. The sad thing is that he's not alone in this kind of behaviour.

 

Tim.

 

I'm speechless - truth really IS stranger than fiction.  This is too unbelievable to be made up.  Will anyone work with this buffoon?

[mstaylor]

I saw a guy toss a catcher in an allstar game. Batter fouled a ball that caught the umpire. The PU said the catcher got him hit on purpose and threw him. This was the first inning. 

[umpire_scott]

The worst I ever had was when I was coaching middle school girl's basketball.  My team was running down the court on defense and all of a sudden the lead ref blows his whistle and ejects one of my players.  I was incredulous.  She was a great kid and had just started playing basketball and I did not see her do anything.  I asked the referee what she did and he said that she was backpedaling and purposely kneed the other player in the butt who was also backpedaling.  There was no reaction from the other girl at all.  When he made the ejection everyone stood around not having any idea what had happened.  I asked my player who was crying what happened and she told me the girls was backpedaling and just ran into her.  She said she may have lifted he leg to simply brace herself, but there was no intent.  The league required a next game suspension for any player ejected.  So after the game I asked the other coach and she said she saw nothing.  In fact when the ref yelled the ejection out her player assumed she was being ejected.  I contacted the AD and alerted him to the situation and he contacted the ref, interviewed the other coach, and based on the information reinstated my player for the next game.  I had this referee before and he was notorious for being a hothead, but this was the worst.  I just don't know how you can immediately eject unless you are 100% certain there was some pretty egregious offense. 

[BigUmp56]

You're right in line with what I'm talking about. We'll get enough ejections even when we're at our best. It comes with the territory. But we shouldn't cause ejections by using poor game management techinques, lazy mechanics, and being rude the coaches and players. I'll give you a prime example of what I'm talking about.

 

I worked a high level tournament with a guy a number of years ago. This guy was always in a hurry to get the game over and get on down the road. As the two teams were changing sides on a half inning, he started yelling at the outfielders to run to their positions. Apparently they weren't moving fast enough for this jerk, and with one sweep of his arm, he ejected all three of the team's starting outfielders. THE ENTIRE OUTFIELD!! There was nothing I could do but cringe. Needless to say, I now refuse to work with this guy again, but he keeps on working games. All the while being a complete prick to everyone. The sad thing is that he's not alone in this kind of behaviour.

 

Tim.

 

I'm speechless - truth really IS stranger than fiction.  This is too unbelievable to be made up.  Will anyone work with this buffoon?

He became the lead evaluator in our association. He retired a couple of years ago. Heavens be praised.......

Tim

[zm1283]

There is no reason to say "Excuse me?" or ask them to repeat something said under their breath if you don't hear it the first time.  If they're walking away and haven't said anything else ejection-worthy, let it go.  

[spiritump]

This is the second one this year, I must be getting crabby in my old age.

U14, B1 takes a belt high fastball down the middle for 3rd strike. I rang him up and he turned and looked at me and mumbled something. I said "I beg your pardon", He started to walk away then turned back and said "you heard me, that was crap" I then dumped him. Not a peep from the dugout. After the game I was changing at my truck and his manager happened to be parked next to me and he said that the kid deserved it and that he was a bit of a hothead. Then we had a very cordial 5 minute chat about of all things baseball, and no more mention of the game which they lost or the EJ. Go figure.

 

Tony

 

It sounds like you went fishing ,hooked the bait and got one.

[UMP45]

This is the second one this year, I must be getting crabby in my old age.

U14, B1 takes a belt high fastball down the middle for 3rd strike. I rang him up and he turned and looked at me and mumbled something. I said "I beg your pardon", He started to walk away then turned back and said "you heard me, that was crap" I then dumped him. Not a peep from the dugout. After the game I was changing at my truck and his manager happened to be parked next to me and he said that the kid deserved it and that he was a bit of a hothead. Then we had a very cordial 5 minute chat about of all things baseball, and no more mention of the game which they lost or the EJ. Go figure.

 

Tony

 

 

I do the same as OP if player or manager mumbles I say excuse me. I figure this is my way of saying hey you are pushing it. If they are dumb enough to turn around and repeat it see ya

And if we saw one of our brothers, in the bigs, do this on tv there would be a pot load of people on here ripping them for being confrontational!

[joshdungan]

I saw a guy toss a catcher in an allstar game. Batter fouled a ball that caught the umpire. The PU said the catcher got him hit on purpose and threw him. This was the first inning. 

I wonder if he realizes just how nearly impossible that is.