LL again??

dumbdumb · July 13, 2013

Here's the latest.

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-iowa/little-league-players-watch-fight-between-coaches/-/9357080/20926694/-/1frem0/-/index.html

Why does the board only suspend for one game? Listen to the officer.

Doesn't the District want to hear about this? What about the State LL Officers? What about the Regional Officers? What about WP?

It is obvious that this guy who drove up during practice and accosted this opposing coach in front of the players, and then have an officer of the law corroborate his deportment, should not even justify the words "suspended for one game".

The League should be talking about how long the coach is being "banned" from the league, not suspended.

Any criminal charges and actions are a totally different story and entirely separate from the LL discipline to be handed out in this event.

This is about the Grandview Little League board in Des Moine, Iowa, not taking care of business that is justified for this display of UC. The time doesn't match the severity of the incident.

This is pathetic and totally not what Little League is about, and IMHO not the type of mickey mouse penalty this fine organization wants. Does LL condone this type of action? Of course it does not. It wishes there were never an incident. However, when an incident like this arises, IMHO they would want a penalty that is much more severe than this pathetic display of punishment. What is this GLL thinking? Is this how you want LL represented in front of the children? Somebody just driving up off the road and accosting a coach in front of the children at a baseball complex???

You got to be kidding me.

What other measures could be taken above the Locals head, to give this coach more than just a pathetic one game suspension? Where do the letters from people following LL and this particular League need to go. Somebody out there knows the how to get LL to do more than just a cursory "look the other way" penalty for this type of behavior. So?????

Don't the leaders of this Fine Organization, LL, want to hear about situations such as this, or do they just want to "look the other way" and bury their heads in the sand also, like this League is doing?? What gives?

I am just dumbfounded by such a light penalty. Sounds like a quick one game before anybody knows what is happening and then he is out coaching again (quick couple of games like that other HS coach pulled off when his player was kicked out of a game) and before anyone could even confront the board about such a light penalty, he is already back out there and anyone like the District, or Region say it is too late for them to intervene and it would be after the fact and they (both the board and District on up know that and absolutely do not care).

Sounds like that is how you bend the rule the way you want. Do it quickly and a one gamer before anyone can weigh in and intervene and both the District and Regions hands are tied. Apparently that's the way they want it or they would change it to say, indefinitely suspended, or maybe the High Ups in LL can suspend the Local board????? Is that possible????

Wow, does this guy own the town and his family own the League? Is the family on the board or what?? Just what gives here? There has to be an angle.

Or, did this incident never happen and this article is just a summer video and journalism class practicing?

Let's have you guys from Iowa weigh in on this League.

7/13 -And here is another one from LL T-ball no less in South Bend, Indiana

http://www.abc57.com/home/top-stories/Little-League-coach-arrested-for-hitting-another-coach-214667881.html

carolinablue · July 13, 2013

One game??? What a joke. The worst of it is they are going to actually let this jerk back in the dugout with kids. He should be banned forever. If my kid was on the his team he would be done as long as this guy is still the coach.

This is no different than an umpire that won't handle his business and leaves it for someone else, this will almost definately happen again with this guy. Maybe the guy he attacked is a real jerk too but what on a baseball feild can justify an assault in front of children?

IMO, LL needs to take a close look at this and other incidents and make a rule, in the book, that says any violence by coaches MUST result in permanent banning from LL.

SJA · July 13, 2013

I'm in the process of drafting a suggestion(s) to LL / Williamsport regarding such matters. I'll post it when done.

SJA

Dannytheman · July 13, 2013

He would have been gone in my league!! But the board has to have the balls to do it!

MB_Ump · July 13, 2013

I hope that article is a bad joke, but I know it isn't.

blue23ll · July 13, 2013

Each little league is run very much independently by an elected board of directors. There is a wide variation of how each league is managed, some are very well organized and run, while others are basically on auto pilot, and run by the coaches. One of my major complaints about the leagues I volunteered for was their lack of support for the umpires and their unwillingness to hold the adults in the program accountable for their behavior. I have served on boards that would not take any discipline against coaches no matter what, fearing legal actions or other repercussions. This caused me to quit working at the league level and concentrate my efforts at the District level. The District really has no jurisdiction in matters concerning local league administration, so District's very seldom get involved in problems at the league level, unless we were asked to intervene or consult. Problems brought to Regional or Williamsport were almost always referred through the District administration back to the local league for resolution. The District is basically a resource for the leagues not a policing body.

dumbdumb · July 13, 2013

Each little league is run very much independently by an elected board of directors. There is a wide variation of how each league is managed, some are very well organized and run, while others are basically on auto pilot, and run by the coaches. One of my major complaints about the leagues I volunteered for was their lack of support for the umpires and their unwillingness to hold the adults in the program accountable for their behavior. I have served on boards that would not take any discipline against coaches no matter what, fearing legal actions or other repercussions. This caused me to quit working at the league level and concentrate my efforts at the District level. The District really has no jurisdiction in matters concerning local league administration, so District's very seldom get involved in problems at the league level, unless we were asked to intervene or consult. Problems brought to Regional or Williamsport were almost always referred through the District administration back to the local league for resolution. The District is basically a resource for the leagues not a policing body.

Thank you for having the courage to say this.

So, the Locals know they can do anything they want and not face retribution from the District on up, because the District on up just says "it's up to the local board" when pressed on an issue like this and everyone knows it and just laughs about it.

Now, if the District and Region and WP had to be informed of the circumstances before the punishment is handed out (indefinite suspension) and they could give their guidance, maybe things would change, because then everyone could now complain to that the District and Region and WP does nothing about these instances and you could go directly back to them being culpable when a mickey mouse punishment is handed out in an incidence of this magnitude.

So, the higher ups just let it roll. That is BS and they know it. They just take their cushy appointment and say, "not my job", and look the other way.

Mickey Mouse organization that needs to quit beating their chest about what a great organization they are.

My opinion of LL is rapidly changing. When somebody at the local level does not have the intestinal fortitude to do what is right, then the next level should step up and take charge. Otherwise LL needs to bow out in their corporate structure and just dissolve and let baseball be a community run League/Organization that can do anything they want like the wild wild west. Did the citizens get rid of the outlaws themselves, or did they have to go to a next level, like sheriff, or state, or Fed. government. Seems like they could not handle things at the local level and needed the higher levels to step up many times, when they could not handle.

Wow, what a former great organization (maybe it has been this bad all along but nobody would know it until now) that is turning into a Mickey Mouse Organization very quickly.

BigUmpire · July 13, 2013

LL is broke.

It seems to have turned into a very political sissy run government like organization.

This why more and more leagues are turning to USSSA.

LL is about what you canâ€™t do; USSSA is more of what you can do.

NOW USSSA runs their tournaments like cash machines BUT they do allow the local leagues to run their own organization as they see fit.

basejester · July 13, 2013

LL is broke.
It seems to have turned into a very political sissy run government like organization.
This why more and more leagues are turning to USSSA.
LL is about what you canâ€™t do; USSSA is more of what you can do.
NOW USSSA runs their tournaments like cash machines BUT they do allow the local leagues to run their own organization as they see fit.

So a local USSSA could also could also choose to mete out a light punishment. I don't see how this connects with the criticism for lack of governance.

carolinablue · July 13, 2013

Sooner or later one of these jerks will show their butt at the LLWS or one of the televised regional games and maybe LL will take it more seriously.

BigUmpire · July 13, 2013

LL is broke.
It seems to have turned into a very political sissy run government like organization.
This why more and more leagues are turning to USSSA.
LL is about what you canâ€™t do; USSSA is more of what you can do.
NOW USSSA runs their tournaments like cash machines BUT they do allow the local leagues to run their own organization as they see fit.

So a local USSSA could also could also choose to mete out a light punishment. I don't see how this connects with the criticism for lack of governance.

True.

BUT this has not been the case here in Georgia. Local USSSA leagues here put the hammer down on rats.

Mike Prince · July 13, 2013

My perspective is that many leagues/tournaments are slow to universally back umpires and properly discipline coaches for a few reasons - one, in many cases we are the only person associated with the game getting compensation so that clouds their decision making at times. Two, most of us are out there because we have a passion and some people think that keeps us out there no matter what some board or TD decides to do in the face of logic.

Coaches? In many levels of youth ball they are out there coaching a bunch of other kids because that's the "penalty" they have to pay to coach their own kids or live out a narcissistic dream to be a big league manager replica. These people may be well-intentioned at times, but they are largely volunteers and if a TD or league pisses them off then they walk or pull their team (and revenue stream) from a tournament.

In youth sports in general, society is taking over with a "must win" attitude - when I was a kid rec ball (LL) was for spirit of competition, life lessons and sportsmanship. Most of all it kept a lot of us out of trouble and we made a bunch of new friends. In today's world, I sense many coaches are out there because they have to be, not because they want to be. In many cases, no one is willing to step because they don't want the headaches and all of the parent whining, or they prefer to sit in the stands and snipe at the coach/manager and be the parent "expert" who coached or played the game in the past. Plus every 10U player out there is the next MLB phenom through someone's eyes which only adds to the tension.

Last is standards. No one seems to have time to attend mandatory meetings or certification classes, they often spend more time trying to get out of them than they would have spent in them. Part arrogance, part laziness, and the ability to claim ignorance later because they weren't at the rules or coach conduct session. Sadly, umpires often fall into this characterization.

Sad that stuff like this happens but if you consider the lead-up, it is unavoidable. USSSA may be a step in the right direction, but like LL and BR/CR, there is not consistency. I've worked USSSA games where the TD did not have a clue and was worried only with how much the gate was and what his profit was on the concessions. He wants coaches (and their entry fee) to come to the next tourney, so his allegiances are pretty clear. Getting umpires is not a problem, all he has to do is keep making phone calls and he will secure a crew.

SJA · July 13, 2013

There's a lot of truth to what you just said Mike.

SJA

mstaylor · July 13, 2013

I am confused. There is post after post about out of control coaches that hey tossed with no repercussions. This is the hallmark of travel ball,USSSA in particular. If doing nothing to support umpires is the goal then certainly dump LL, Pony,Dixie,CR and anything else like it.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

BigUmpire · July 13, 2013

My perspective is that many leagues/tournaments are slow to universally back umpires and properly discipline coaches for a few reasons - one, in many cases we are the only person associated with the game getting compensation so that clouds their decision making at times. Two, most of us are out there because we have a passion and some people think that keeps us out there no matter what some board or TD decides to do in the face of logic.

Coaches? In many levels of youth ball they are out there coaching a bunch of other kids because that's the "penalty" they have to pay to coach their own kids or live out a narcissistic dream to be a big league manager replica. These people may be well-intentioned at times, but they are largely volunteers and if a TD or league pisses them off then they walk or pull their team (and revenue stream) from a tournament.

In youth sports in general, society is taking over with a "must win" attitude - when I was a kid rec ball (LL) was for spirit of competition, life lessons and sportsmanship. Most of all it kept a lot of us out of trouble and we made a bunch of new friends. In today's world, I sense many coaches are out there because they have to be, not because they want to be. In many cases, no one is willing to step because they don't want the headaches and all of the parent whining, or they prefer to sit in the stands and snipe at the coach/manager and be the parent "expert" who coached or played the game in the past. Plus every 10U player out there is the next MLB phenom through someone's eyes which only adds to the tension.

Last is standards. No one seems to have time to attend mandatory meetings or certification classes, they often spend more time trying to get out of them than they would have spent in them. Part arrogance, part laziness, and the ability to claim ignorance later because they weren't at the rules or coach conduct session. Sadly, umpires often fall into this characterization.

Sad that stuff like this happens but if you consider the lead-up, it is unavoidable. USSSA may be a step in the right direction, but like LL and BR/CR, there is not consistency. I've worked USSSA games where the TD did not have a clue and was worried only with how much the gate was and what his profit was on the concessions. He wants coaches (and their entry fee) to come to the next tourney, so his allegiances are pretty clear. Getting umpires is not a problem, all he has to do is keep making phone calls and he will secure a crew.

You are correct on USSSA TDs. It all about the money.

BigUmpire · July 13, 2013

I am confused. There is post after post about out of control coaches that hey tossed with no repercussions. This is the hallmark of travel ball,USSSA in particular. If doing nothing to support umpires is the goal then certainly dump LL, Pony,Dixie,CR and anything else like it.
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

USSSA travel ball is all about the money. These TDs will throw an umpire under a bus in a heartbeat to appease a coach so thst he will come to the next USSSA tournament BUT they leave the local associations alone inside their own park. Until more umpires stop being $30 whores this will continue.

JaxRolo · July 14, 2013

LL is broke.
It seems to have turned into a very political sissy run government like organization.
This why more and more leagues are turning to USSSA.
LL is about what you canâ€™t do; USSSA is more of what you can do.
NOW USSSA runs their tournaments like cash machines BUT they do allow the local leagues to run their own organization as they see fit.

So a local USSSA could also could also choose to mete out a light punishment. I don't see how this connects with the criticism for lack of governance.

True.

BUT this has not been the case here in Georgia. Local USSSA leagues here put the hammer down on rats.

Not here in NE Florida.

kylejt · July 15, 2013

A local league is, and always will be, only as good as the volunteers willing to step up and run it. Everybody likes to blame Big Brother, Williamsport, Obama, the NSA etc. for their woes, but won't actually do anything to correct it.

Don't like your local league? Fix it, or go somewhere else. LIfe's too short.

Dragon29 · July 15, 2013

One game? And, this was at a practice! He wasn't angry at something that happened at a game and lost his head in the 'heat of the moment'; he drove down to a LL practice to do this!!! One game!!! He should be gone for life - period.

Is there no procedure in place that forces local leagues (& therefore Districts, etc...) to report to Williamsport at least every event that generates a criminal charge? If not, there certainly should be.

I can see letting the local leagues handle their business (badly though it may be handled) for most everything that occurs, but once it escalates to the point of getting law enforcement involved, WP should be notified.

dumbdumb · July 16, 2013

Another incident in Arizona. When does it stop. For crying out loud it is just LL.

If you are that good, the scouts will find you whether you win the game or not.

http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubsectionID=2&ArticleID=57099

And while we are on the subject, read this.

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/footballpreps/parents-grate-in-quest-for-playing-time-scholarships/2131501

Get that scholarship, yes sir re buddy. Look at that high percentage that get a scholarship, 2 % of 7 million.

Look at those pro prospects.

But once again, if you have the talent, the scouts will find you.

carolinablue · July 16, 2013

:shakehead: :bang:

Dannytheman · July 16, 2013

Another incident in Arizona. When does it stop. For crying out loud it is just LL.

If you are that good, the scouts will find you whether you win the game or not.

http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubsectionID=2&ArticleID=57099

And while we are on the subject, read this.

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/footballpreps/parents-grate-in-quest-for-playing-time-scholarships/2131501

Get that scholarship, yes sir re buddy. Look at that high percentage that get a scholarship, 2 % of 7 million.

Look at those pro prospects.

But once again, if you have the talent, the scouts will find you.

I mean you will admit that there are more LL games than all others right? So that said, there would be more published issues just on the size of the pool!

Your standard LL is not causing these issues, it is the IMHO illegally thrown together "travel teams" that parents get their kid in that caused this high level of clashes.

SoCal Lurker · July 16, 2013

I'd love to see Williamsport (or any league) take a page from soccer hooliganism in these situations and ban parents and spectators from the game . . . just players, coaches, and umpires . . .

dumbdumb · July 16, 2013

What is it with you police officer guys. Police """""chief""""" at that. Haven't you been umpiring citizens all your life. Why pick on the umpire? Tough guy eh. Pitiful. Bullying and belittling a poor little umpire with your prominent position, and refusing to leave because you are the great and powerful police chief. Why don't you just announce to the world. "Do you know who I am." What a great role model. Yes sir re buddy. I thought from all the articles it is the umpires who are arrogant, jerks, confrontational, bad attitude, power hungry and need to be held accountable.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Just so you don't think I only talk about LL with this problem. This is American Legion.

http://www.times-standard.com/sports/ci_23654547/column-this-dad-was-wrong

added-7/20/13--And here is an old SI article on LL back in the 50's. Enjoy.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1133269/

Or maybe this article about a situation will get those wheels spinning.

http://www.ethicsscoreboard.com/list/littleleague2.html

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