another ejection.. 3rd this year.

[Ring 'em Up]

HS JV game, upon calling the conference at the plate b/4 the game, i noticed that the HT players were out of the dugout so i asked the HTC to call out to them to get' em  in the dugout while we had our meeting.  immediately, he comes out with, "well i've never had an umpire tell me to do that before" in a not so pleasant voice (i could already tell he was mad). to which i replied "i'm not everybody" he complied, but.. his demeanor had changed.

 

come to the 2nd inning, the HT is losing by 3 or 4 runs.  VT up to bat, R2, R1.  B3 hits a high fly ball down the r-field line, since this is a one man game, i'm staying about 3 steps in back of HP, F4, F1, & F3 all converge on FB.  my last look is 'fair', BR moves to lane and... bam! i don't have a view.  i put out my l-hand and point in, for fair and before play even stops, the HTC come charging out of his dugout screaming "that's bull sh*t... that's bullsh*t.... i can't believe you made that F(*&(*( ing call...!" .  he said the 'F' word so many times, i couldn't even count 'em.

 

actually.. i couldn't believe it... everybody in the stands.. from both sides gasped at his outburst..  at that point, i just put my mask under my arm and waited for him to stop, and when he did, i banged him for ejection... then.. he really went ballistic.. cussing and cussing.. my gawd.. he wouldn't stop..

 

think he'll get fired?

 

ron-

[BigUmpire]

Nope.

He will be the pincipal next year.

[T-Rav]

A) why does it matter where the players are during the plate meeting? What if they're having a huddle outside the dugout or something? What if the pitcher is still warming up in the bullpen, or starters are in the outfield running sprints to get ready? Booger picking.

 

B) If you think you're going to get screened by a runner of fielder, take a step off the line in either direction to clear your view.

A) FED Rule, I believe.

[Ring 'em Up]

 

A) why does it matter where the players are during the plate meeting? What if they're having a huddle outside the dugout or something? What if the pitcher is still warming up in the bullpen, or starters are in the outfield running sprints to get ready? Booger picking.

 

B) If you think you're going to get screened by a runner of fielder, take a step off the line in either direction to clear your view.

A) FED Rule, I believe.

 

 

absolutely it is:  FED 2.10.2 "Both teams shall remain in the dugout (bench) or bull pen area until this meeting is concluded."

 

... hence the reason i enforced this rule.

 

So T-Rav, are you saying you're not enforcing this rule?  Booger picking...???  um, seems to me as umpires we are there to enforce all rules.. not just the ones 'we' like.  so tell me..., what other rules are you 'not enforcing' because you don't like 'em?

 

ron-

[sdix00]

A clear field for the plate meeting is a POE here for NFHS games.   I got dinged for it on my eval.    

 

 

Then, the next day, I moseyed to the plate for an OBR travel ball game, asked the coaches to clear the field, and got back "WHat the F*k??  We paid $600 for this tourney.  We're taking ground balls!!"

 

I can't win. 

[KLAH316]

Then, the next day, I moseyed to the plate for an OBR travel ball game, asked the coaches to clear the field, and got back "WHat the F*k??  We paid $600 for this tourney.  We're taking ground balls!!"

 

B.S.  Plate meeting time - "Coaches!  Bring them in!"  I start the clock as soon as we break the meeting so that's their warning. 

[Ring 'em Up]

A clear field for the plate meeting is a POE here for NFHS games.   I got dinged for it on my eval.    

 

 

Then, the next day, I moseyed to the plate for an OBR travel ball game, asked the coaches to clear the field, and got back "WHat the F*k??  We paid $600 for this tourney.  We're taking ground balls!!"

 

I can't win. 

 

POE..?

[KLAH316]

A clear field for the plate meeting is a POE here for NFHS games.   I got dinged for it on my eval.    

 

 

Then, the next day, I moseyed to the plate for an OBR travel ball game, asked the coaches to clear the field, and got back "WHat the F*k??  We paid $600 for this tourney.  We're taking ground balls!!"

 

I can't win.

 

POE..?

POE= Point Of Emphasis

[guitarplaya2007]

 there are certain rules which even in professional baseball are "ignored" until one or both managers complain and then are strictly enforced, I.E pine tar more than 18" up the handle, Coaches outside the coaches box... etc etc, if the rules violation does not affect the progress of the game or the integrity of the game then it is probably one that you would "turn a blind eye to" until it is "brought to your attention" by the other coach. Naturally you're not going to let them take infield while you're conducting the plate meeting , but if they are having a huddle or waiting outside the dugout for the pressbox to call lineups this probably isn't going to be the end of the stick you want to grab. Think of it this way, you started the game off by pi$$ing off the coach by saying this, yes you were enforcing the rules but you also have to think about game management here as well. Now if your association is telling you to strictly enforce this, then enforce it by all means... I'm putting this rule in the same category as the "hybrid balk" when it comes to fed rules, both pointless and have zero effect on the outcome of the game or game management.

[VAUmp]

I totally disagree about the hybrid balk.  I had a kid a couple of weeks ago that was great at it.  His foot positioning was exactly the same when in the windup and when he was in the stretch.  The base runners had no idea whether he was in the windup or in the stretch.  It was a classic case of runner deception.  I put a stop to it very quickly to the chagrin of both he and his head coach.  

[mstaylor]

 there are certain rules which even in professional baseball are "ignored" until one or both managers complain and then are strictly enforced, I.E pine tar more than 18" up the handle, Coaches outside the coaches box... etc etc, if the rules violation does not affect the progress of the game or the integrity of the game then it is probably one that you would "turn a blind eye to" until it is "brought to your attention" by the other coach. Naturally you're not going to let them take infield while you're conducting the plate meeting , but if they are having a huddle or waiting outside the dugout for the pressbox to call lineups this probably isn't going to be the end of the stick you want to grab. Think of it this way, you started the game off by pi$$ing off the coach by saying this, yes you were enforcing the rules but you also have to think about game management here as well. Now if your association is telling you to strictly enforce this, then enforce it by all means... I'm putting this rule in the same category as the "hybrid balk" when it comes to fed rules, both pointless and have zero effect on the outcome of the game or game management.

Fed has a rule to keep the teams in the dugout during certain times. While the other team is taking infield, the other team is in the dugout. This is to stop any taunting or intimidation. During the plate meeting they are to off the field for the safety of the umpires and to continue the taunting/intimidation prohibition. It needs to be enforced, it's not a big deal. 

[UmpJM]

Ring 'em up,

 

If the players are near their dugouts, you are being an OOO if you insist they go inside their dugouts during the plate conference; and while you may understand the letter of the law, you do not understand its spirit. You should not even "see" this unless the players are engaging in some behavior that is creating an issue.

 

It sounds like you had terrible positioning on the fair/foul call and made no adjustment to allow for the fact that 3 players were converging on the ball and the BR was headed to 1st - which you should have seen and made allowance for. Not surprising the coach was a little miffed you kicked the call.

 

JM

[mstaylor]

As far as the guys being outside the dugout, unless they are throwing or running their mouths, I don't worry about it. Innocent milling is nothing and can be ignored. Anybody yakking or throwing, they need to stop.  

[24sdad]

HS JV game, upon calling the conference at the plate b/4 the game, i noticed that the HT players were out of the dugout so i asked the HTC to call out to them to get' em  in the dugout while we had our meeting.  immediately, he comes out with, "well i've never had an umpire tell me to do that before" in a not so pleasant voice (i could already tell he was mad). to which i replied "i'm not everybody" he complied, but.. his demeanor had changed.

 

 

Maybe a better response could have been something similar to, "Dick, it is a HS rule, I need everyone in the dugout during our plate meeting please."  Just a thought.

 

I would be interested to hear if anyone else working HS "calls" the HC's to the plate meeting?  We check in with HT upon arrival at field and let them know I/we will be back about five minutes before start time.  Do not go onto the field again until that time.  Proceed to the plate and HC's magically appear with line-ups in hand.  I have never had to call a HS HC to the plate.

 

As far as keeping them in the dugout, yes it was a POE this year.  Around here, as HC is making his way to plate meeting if the kids are not already in their dugout, an assist coach will tell them to get in.  On the rare occasion my partner or I had to remind the offending HC, he immediately yelled at his gets to get in the dugout.  You were right to enforce this, as yes, it is a rating element...however CS.

[Ring 'em Up]

Ring 'em up,

 

If the players are near their dugouts, you are being an OOO if you insist they go inside their dugouts during the plate conference; and while you may understand the letter of the law, you do not understand its spirit. You should not even "see" this unless the players are engaging in some behavior that is creating an issue.

 

It sounds like you had terrible positioning on the fair/foul call and made no adjustment to allow for the fact that 3 players were converging on the ball and the BR was headed to 1st - which you should have seen and made allowance for. Not surprising the coach was a little miffed you kicked the call.

 

JM

 

there were 2 outs, and w/an R2 my position is behind the plate.  there was also a FBC, which blocked my view when backing up any further... this is definitely a HTBT situation.  R2 broke off SB with the hit, and if managed correctly the play could have been an out at FB.  Obviously, i had to watch R2 touch 3B & if the ball was fair touch HP, BR move into the running lane, watch F3 for obstruction, and watch for the fair/foul call,.

 

as for asking the coach to call his boys in.. i've asked a few times this season to bring the boys in.. and there has "never' been any problem whatsoever.  additionally, both my mentor, and the instructional chair for my association, have told me to always apply the rules as you never know who's watching and or evaluating you.  as mentioned earlier this is an evaluation point, therefore i'm not gonna get dinged for it because some coach want's to battle for something so small.

 

oh, and he wasn't "a little miffed", he was over the line completely..  running out onto a live field, yelling, and throwing 'F' bombs.. 

 

ron-

[MT_Blue]

I totally disagree about the hybrid balk.    

 

First time ive heard of that...what exactly is it....

[UmpJM]

Ring 'em up,

 

1. What is the single highest priority call you had in your situation?

 

2. How many ejections & games do you average in a season?

 

JM

[BigUmpire]

I like the rule.

How many times have you been hit or close to being hit during a pregame meeting.

They may be milling around one second BUT throwing the next.

Good rule.

[guitarplaya2007]

 

there are certain rules which even in professional baseball are "ignored" until one or both managers complain and then are strictly enforced, I.E pine tar more than 18" up the handle, Coaches outside the coaches box... etc etc, if the rules violation does not affect the progress of the game or the integrity of the game then it is probably one that you would "turn a blind eye to" until it is "brought to your attention" by the other coach. Naturally you're not going to let them take infield while you're conducting the plate meeting , but if they are having a huddle or waiting outside the dugout for the pressbox to call lineups this probably isn't going to be the end of the stick you want to grab. Think of it this way, you started the game off by pi$$ing off the coach by saying this, yes you were enforcing the rules but you also have to think about game management here as well. Now if your association is telling you to strictly enforce this, then enforce it by all means... I'm putting this rule in the same category as the "hybrid balk" when it comes to fed rules, both pointless and have zero effect on the outcome of the game or game management.

Fed has a rule to keep the teams in the dugout during certain times. While the other team is taking infield, the other team is in the dugout. This is to stop any taunting or intimidation. During the plate meeting they are to off the field for the safety of the umpires and to continue the taunting/intimidation prohibition. It needs to be enforced, it's not a big deal.If

Read that carefully, i said i'm not going to let them take infield while i'm conducting the plate meeting but having a huddle or standing around outside the dugout i'm not going to go looking for, as for the hybrid position, i think FED is trying to micromanage the game with this rule, the runner should know whether the pitcher is in the set or stretch position, this is determined by the position of the pivot foot, not the non pivot foot. All you are doing by making/enforcing this rule is setting these kids up for failure when they get to college or go play any other league played under OBR because they wont be looking for the pivot foot's position they will be looking for the free foot's position, this is a completely legal position in OBR and NCAA thus should be legal in FED, but again if a coach brings it to my attention I will address it...

[guitarplaya2007]

 

Ring 'em up,

 

If the players are near their dugouts, you are being an OOO if you insist they go inside their dugouts during the plate conference; and while you may understand the letter of the law, you do not understand its spirit. You should not even "see" this unless the players are engaging in some behavior that is creating an issue.

 

It sounds like you had terrible positioning on the fair/foul call and made no adjustment to allow for the fact that 3 players were converging on the ball and the BR was headed to 1st - which you should have seen and made allowance for. Not surprising the coach was a little miffed you kicked the call.

 

JM

 

there were 2 outs, and w/an R2 my position is behind the plate.  there was also a FBC, which blocked my view when backing up any further... this is definitely a HTBT situation.  R2 broke off SB with the hit, and if managed correctly the play could have been an out at FB.  Obviously, i had to watch R2 touch 3B & if the ball was fair touch HP, BR move into the running lane, watch F3 for obstruction, and watch for the fair/foul call,.

 

as for asking the coach to call his boys in.. i've asked a few times this season to bring the boys in.. and there has "never' been any problem whatsoever.  additionally, both my mentor, and the instructional chair for my association, have told me to always apply the rules as you never know who's watching and or evaluating you.  as mentioned earlier this is an evaluation point, therefore i'm not gonna get dinged for it because some coach want's to battle for something so small.

 

oh, and he wasn't "a little miffed", he was over the line completely..  running out onto a live field, yelling, and throwing 'F' bombs.. 

 

ron-

 

READ OBR GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS TO UMPIRES!!!! It clearly states "It is better to know whether a ball is fair or foul than to know whether a runner touches a base"   Right out of the Official baseball rules, your first responsibility is ALWAYS FAIR/FOUL followed by CATCH/NO CATCH if you miss the touch of third so be it, because it's better to know where the ball is than to see that, yes you need to look to see it but only after you see whether the ball is fair or foul. On top of it all, since you are by yourself when the defensive team appeals whether he missed or touched third base all you need to say is "I'm by myself, i'm doing the best I can to get it right, that is the best look I could get." I'm not blasting you here at all i'm just trying to help you out in the future, umpires have priorities, and if a call takes priority over the other then you need to see that call, even if it means not being able to see the other...

[ump570]

I may be wrong, but I'd be willing to guess that you may have developed a reputation as an umpire with a hard-on for nit picking rules. I also say this because you have 3 ejections this early in the year. I could be completely off base, but the way you went to such great lengths to justify missing the foul call and some of the other stuff you said leaves me to believe that you may be allowing your ego to cloud your vision. We're all umpires here. We make mistakes and when I blow a call I come on the board and I talk about it and learn from other guys here, and try to get better. I played baseball at many levels and for many more years than I've umpired, so I try to see the game from both sides so that I can gain a clearer understanding of why players, coaches, and umpires behave the way they do. I think it gives me an advantage as far as game management is concerned. I'd rather do what I can to keep a player or coach in the game than be very quick to toss them. That being said, the coach in your situation had to go. But I think the pregame stuff may have set the tone for what happened later in the game. Maybe. Maybe not.

[Sayhey]

Good job keeping your cool. I hope he gets fired.

Tell your assignor there is no such thing as a 1 man umpire crew. You need a partner. If there are not enough umpires to put a crew on the field the game should be canceled. Refuse to do 1 man games. If everyone refused to do them they would not exist.

[BigUmpire]

We should all follow Sayheys advice.

 

If not we will all be working two games at once by our selves for $20

[Ring 'em Up]

 

 

Ring 'em up,

 

If the players are near their dugouts, you are being an OOO if you insist they go inside their dugouts during the plate conference; and while you may understand the letter of the law, you do not understand its spirit. You should not even "see" this unless the players are engaging in some behavior that is creating an issue.

 

It sounds like you had terrible positioning on the fair/foul call and made no adjustment to allow for the fact that 3 players were converging on the ball and the BR was headed to 1st - which you should have seen and made allowance for. Not surprising the coach was a little miffed you kicked the call.

 

JM

 

there were 2 outs, and w/an R2 my position is behind the plate.  there was also a FBC, which blocked my view when backing up any further... this is definitely a HTBT situation.  R2 broke off SB with the hit, and if managed correctly the play could have been an out at FB.  Obviously, i had to watch R2 touch 3B & if the ball was fair touch HP, BR move into the running lane, watch F3 for obstruction, and watch for the fair/foul call,.

 

as for asking the coach to call his boys in.. i've asked a few times this season to bring the boys in.. and there has "never' been any problem whatsoever.  additionally, both my mentor, and the instructional chair for my association, have told me to always apply the rules as you never know who's watching and or evaluating you.  as mentioned earlier this is an evaluation point, therefore i'm not gonna get dinged for it because some coach want's to battle for something so small.

 

oh, and he wasn't "a little miffed", he was over the line completely..  running out onto a live field, yelling, and throwing 'F' bombs.. 

 

ron-

 

READ OBR GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS TO UMPIRES!!!! It clearly states "It is better to know whether a ball is fair or foul than to know whether a runner touches a base"   Right out of the Official baseball rules, your first responsibility is ALWAYS FAIR/FOUL followed by CATCH/NO CATCH if you miss the touch of third so be it, because it's better to know where the ball is than to see that, yes you need to look to see it but only after you see whether the ball is fair or foul. On top of it all, since you are by yourself when the defensive team appeals whether he missed or touched third base all you need to say is "I'm by myself, i'm doing the best I can to get it right, that is the best look I could get." I'm not blasting you here at all i'm just trying to help you out in the future, umpires have priorities, and if a call takes priority over the other then you need to see that call, even if it means not being able to see the other...

 

 

 

 

I may be wrong, but I'd be willing to guess with a name like Ring Em Up, you have developed a reputation as an umpire with a hard-on for nit picking rules. I also say this because you have 3 ejections this early in the year. I could be completely off base, but the way you went to such great lengths to justify missing the foul call and some of the other stuff you said leaves me to believe that you may be allowing your ego to cloud your vision. We're all umpires here. We make mistakes and when I blow a call I come on the board and I talk about it and learn from other guys here, and try to get better. I played baseball at many levels and for many more years than I've umpired, so I try to see the game from both sides so that I can gain a clearer understanding of why players, coaches, and umpires behave the way they do. I think it gives me an advantage as far as game management is concerned. I'd rather do what I can to keep a player or coach in the game than be very quick to toss them. That being said, the coach in your situation had to go. But I think the pregame stuff may have set the tone for what happened later in the game. Maybe. Maybe not.

 

you are.  one of our brethren sent me a pair of combo pants, and inside the box he placed 2 'ring em up' stickers.  i just thought it was a cool 'nickname' for UE.  

 

no i don't nitpik. 

 

3 ejections : one for a coach coming out onto a live field, and yelling that i said something to a boy "which i didn't" and he started cussing, one for a coach who didn't agree with a strike call and was calling out 'chickensh*t' at a pinto game, and this last one.  so, each and everyone of these coaches deserved to be tossed.

 

as for my pre-game stuff, i refuse to get dinged on an evaluation because a coach can't just call 'em in. 

 

(by the way, i had a call yesterday from the AD from the school of the coach who i tossed on Friday.  to say the least i was very supprised.. he told me he called the president of our association to see if he could talk to me about what happened.  i guess the frosh coach was at the game and called the AD right after i tossed the JV coach. this AD is the Varisity coach, and when talking to him about the pre-game conference, he agreed with me 100% about bringing the boys in, and said that he always calls the boys in as soon as the ump calls the plate meeting.. and even said that is what he has told his JV coach to do previously.  i also explained what happened on the fair/foul call and he expressed that yes, it was a one man umpire game and allowances need to be made by the coaches.. he also said that that's not the first time an umpire has had a problem reading a fair/foul call down the R-line at his field)

 

again.. this is a HTBT sitituation

 

ron-

[KLAH316]

Good job keeping your cool. I hope he gets fired.

Tell your assignor there is no such thing as a 1 man umpire crew. You need a partner. If there are not enough umpires to put a crew on the field the game should be canceled. Refuse to do 1 man games. If everyone refused to do them they would not exist.

 

Sad part is that around here if you refuse to work 1 man, then you just won't work.....