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Missed Plate..... Appeal??

KLAH316

By KLAH316
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KLAH316

KLAH316

Posted
Posted

Situation:

10U Triple Crown Tourney - NFHS Ruleset

 

Bases Loaded, I am in C.  Batter gets drilled by pitch and drops like a sack of potatoes.  All runners advance, batter still laying on the ground.  Batter gets up and walks to 1B.  I walk toward 1B to do the obligitory "You ok and ask the 1BC if he is ready to go."

 

Once R1 now is ready, I turn around and notice my partner giving a "OUT" mechanic.  I shrug my shoulders toward him asking what happened at the same time the 3BC is walking down the line to him asking what is going on. 

 

PU comes out to me and says "the runner from 3rd missed the plate".  The 3BC is only 5 feet away at this point so I don't say anything but he starts to come uncorked about it.  PU explaines to the 3BC that he did in fact see that the runner from 3rd missed the plate and the DC appealed it so he is out.

 

After the game, we talked about it and I asked him what was up with the runner missing the plate and the appeal.  The appeal has to be during a live ball.  He said no it didn't because it was a dead ball as soon as the coach questioned it, thats the appeal.

 

Now, I came home and looked it up and 8-2-5 says it can be a LIVE or DEAD ball appeal.... Therefore, we are both correct??

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scrounge
scrounge

Except the actual out call. I saw that kid touch the plate So your cheating? Look at the situation. Bases loaded. HBP. The runner is GOING TO SCORE! No one is gaining an advantage. I know that the ru

sdix00
sdix00

Well that settles it.  A dead ball appeal is legal in HS.

mstaylor
mstaylor

I have disagreed with Carl on many occasions, I still respect him and heartily endorse his BRD. However I disagree more when he gets away from rules and gets into philosophy of baseball. Now if it is

KLAH316

KLAH316

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Posted

Partner nailed it.

Ok, BUT if they waited for the ball to be put in play and made the live ball apppeal would it have been legitimate too??

BT_Blue

BT_Blue

Posted
Posted

Partner nailed it.

Ok, BUT if they waited for the ball to be put in play and made the live ball apppeal would it have been legitimate too??

 

Then they would have had to go through the proper motions for the appeal. This is one of the few rules I can think of that I actually like and feel that it makes it easier on us for once.

  • Like 1
UMP45

UMP45

Posted
Posted

 

Partner nailed it.

Except the actual out call. I saw that kid touch the plateSo your cheating?
NFUA_44

NFUA_44

Posted
Posted

If I am not mistaken a Coaches appeal MUST be a dead ball appeal, whereas the Live appeal is just a normal situation and the players would have to initiate an appeal as they normally would.

 

To answer your question though yes, either appeal is acceptable under FED.  There are also some youth organizations that have adopted dead ball appeals also, but it's not used in OBR.

bam

bam

Posted
Posted

 

Partner nailed it.

Except the actual out call. I saw that kid touch the plateSo your cheating?

Look at the situation. Bases loaded. HBP. The runner is GOING TO SCORE! No one is gaining an advantage. I know that the runners have to touch their bases, blah, blah, blah. THE RUNNER IS GOING TO SCORE. If your partner had been on the ball he would have been standing 2 feet off the plate and he would have made sure the runner touched. He inserted himself into the game by allowing that to happen. JMO.

scrounge

scrounge

Posted
Posted

 

 

Partner nailed it.

Except the actual out call. I saw that kid touch the plate So your cheating?

Look at the situation. Bases loaded. HBP. The runner is GOING TO SCORE! No one is gaining an advantage. I know that the runners have to touch their bases, blah, blah, blah. THE RUNNER IS GOING TO SCORE. If your partner had been on the ball he would have been standing 2 feet off the plate and he would have made sure the runner touched. He inserted himself into the game by allowing that to happen. JMO.

 

Yes, we get it, your rule book has a few pages ripped out.

  • Like 4
Magic

Magic

Posted
Posted

 

 

Partner nailed it.

Except the actual out call. I saw that kid touch the plate So your cheating?

Look at the situation. Bases loaded. HBP. The runner is GOING TO SCORE! No one is gaining an advantage. I know that the runners have to touch their bases, blah, blah, blah. THE RUNNER IS GOING TO SCORE. If your partner had been on the ball he would have been standing 2 feet off the plate and he would have made sure the runner touched. He inserted himself into the game by allowing that to happen. JMO.

Did you really just say it is our job to make sure he touches home? Little Johnny you missed home son. Can you please come touch it for me? Please tell me you are kidding...

bam

bam

Posted
Posted

I am NOT kidding.  I don't get this "particular" hair on certain umps asses.  We call balls and strikes NOT according to the book, yet you breezily allow that to happen.  And IMO those calls impact a game much more than strictly enforcing a touch of home on a force or HR.  It makes no sense to me.  Just make sure the runner or BR touches in those limited circumstances. 

 

Did you really just say it is our job to make sure he touches home? Little Johnny you missed home son. Can you please come touch it for me? Please tell me you are kidding...

 


 

 
Except the actual out call. I saw that kid touch the plate

So your cheating?Look at the situation. Bases loaded. HBP. The runner is GOING TO SCORE! No one is gaining an advantage. I know that the runners have to touch their bases, blah, blah, blah. THE RUNNER IS GOING TO SCORE. If your partner had been on the ball he would have been standing 2 feet off the plate and he would have made sure the runner touched. He inserted himself into the game by allowing that to happen. JMO.

 

 

I get that you feel he SHOULD touch home.  He should.  But in practice it makes NO difference.  If you insist on enforcing THAT rule to the letter, then be prepared to have the coach to MAKE you enforce ALL rules to the book.  If I can get by by saying I saw a runner FORCED to touch the plate, touch the plate, that's the route I'll take 100 times out of a 100. 

UMP45

UMP45

Posted
Posted

 

^^^^  WTF happened there?  Too many green beers is my guess

IMO you have no integrity. It's about hurry up and get the hell out of there!Throwing a pitch is a lot different then touching a base/plate. Apples and oranges.
NCAAump2

NCAAump2

Posted
Posted

Bam, 

 

If I understand what you're saying, you're saying that if you see a runner miss touching HP and the DC appeals to you, you're going to call him "safe," as if he had touched it, but really didn't?  

Jocko

Jocko

Posted
Posted

 

^^^^  WTF happened there?  Too many green beers is my guess

IMO you have no integrity. It's about hurry up and get the hell out of there!Throwing a pitch is a lot different then touching a base/plate. Apples and oranges.I neither agree nor disagree with your intent. However, I would suggest not getting personal. Maybe make it more self directed.

"I have more integrity than to not make the call I saw. If he missed, and it's appealed, I'm of the chaaracter and ilk to give my honest judgement."

Something like that. Again, I neither agree or disagree with anyone else's personal views. Your field, your call.

UMP45

UMP45

Posted
Posted

 

^^^^  WTF happened there?  Too many green beers is my guess

IMO you have no integrity. It's about hurry up and get the hell out of there!Throwing a pitch is a lot different then touching a base/plate. Apples and oranges.

I neither agree nor disagree with your intent. However, I would suggest not getting personal. Maybe make it more self directed.

"I have more integrity than to not make the call I saw. If he missed, and it's appealed, I'm of the chaaracter and ilk to give my honest judgement."

Something like that. Again, I neither agree or disagree with anyone else's personal views. Your field, your call.Just going by past posts. He likes to make stuff up. I'm an umpire. I call it like I see it. We have a few in my HS assocoation just like that.

bam

bam

Posted
Posted

=

 

We call balls and strikes NOT according to the book,


what the hell, man?!?

You mean to tell me you call the strike zone BY THE BOOK?  C'mon, man.

 

And I make things up?  Completely untrue.  Except maybe the part about Semper trying to get to 50 EJs this year.  He may be trying to get to a hundred. 

bam

bam

Posted
Posted

Again, my last reply on this topic.  This excerpt is from a book I read some time ago and just recently re-read (this is from this year's edition - the book has been around and has been updated since '02 I think - don't accuse me of making that date up):

 

"The neighborhood tag and force, the first baseman off the bag to avoid a collision, a technical balk, calling a rule nobody knows, ignoring a rule you don’t like: Those are all blunders that happen when an umpire believes he is bigger than the game, when he knows his knowledge of the rules and mechanics is better than the authoritative voices of those who came before or those who make their living in baseball. The truth is quite different. Perception is reality on the baseball diamond. Burnt sienna is just brown. If he’s gonna be out, he’s gonna be out"

 

Childress, Carl (2012-08-02). 151 Ways to Ruin a Baseball Game (Kindle Locations 6445-6449).  . Kindle Edition.

 

 

One of the ways to ruin a baseball game that is specifically addressed in the book is the play in the OP.  If you want to read it, be my guest.  Just don't think that I'm the only guy in the world who feels that if there's a way I can avoid a SH*#show regarding a tag at home that is going to be made anyway (HR, walk/balk/HBP w/ bases loaded, etc) I'm going to go that route. 

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