Bench Warning - EJ

[Thunderheads]

http://www.mlb.com/v...618687&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23618687&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_23618687&v=3

[BRUMP]

I dont like this rule and I can see why Hurdle is upset. 2 of his guys got hit and now he's not allowed to hit even 1 in retaliation? Doesnt make sense but thats the rule and all the umpire can do is enforce it.

[GerryB]

Balkin' Bob does shave for base jobs....hmmm.

Yeah, but Hurdle may have said "I don't care, I going to hit the next..."

[BRUMP]

Balkin' Bob does shave for base jobs....hmmm.

Yeah, but Hurdle may have said "I don't care, I going to hit the next..."

I agree he needed to go, but IMO the rule is not good in situations like this. Why should the pirates be warned if they didnt do anything?

[Mr Umpire]

Balkin' Bob does shave for base jobs....hmmm.

Yeah, but Hurdle may have said "I don't care, I going to hit the next..."

I agree he needed to go, but IMO the rule is not good in situations like this. Why should the pirates be warned if they didnt do anything?

Well, the point is to prevent the 15 minute group hugging which occurs after the retaliation. If the players handled it better by simply letting the 2 who started it have their say and whatever happens happens, then this would not be needed.

But, the benches clear on just stare downs these days. This way, the warning attempts to keep the game going. If the batters would just go to the base or get the charge out of the way faster so it can be over faster, then this may not be necessary. Plus, if the bench clearing was done less often like it use to be, this wouldn't be necessary either.

And, you have idiots like the MiLB pitcher (I think it was) who threw a baseball at the opponent in the dugout but it went into the stands and hit someone. Or, Jose Offerman who takes a bat with him.

Too much roids raises the tempers too much.

[BRUMP]

Balkin' Bob does shave for base jobs....hmmm.

Yeah, but Hurdle may have said "I don't care, I going to hit the next..."

I agree he needed to go, but IMO the rule is not good in situations like this. Why should the pirates be warned if they didnt do anything?

Well, the point is to prevent the 15 minute group hugging which occurs after the retaliation. If the players handled it better by simply letting the 2 who started it have their say and whatever happens happens, then this would not be needed.

But, the benches clear on just stare downs these days. This way, the warning attempts to keep the game going. If the batters would just go to the base or get the charge out of the way faster so it can be over faster, then this may not be necessary. Plus, if the bench clearing was done less often like it use to be, this wouldn't be necessary either.

And, you have idiots like the MiLB pitcher (I think it was) who threw a baseball at the opponent in the dugout but it went into the stands and hit someone. Or, Jose Offerman who takes a bat with him.

Too much roids raises the tempers too much.

I agree it prevents a problem but at the same time you have to feel a little for Hurdle. Two of his guys got plunked and now hes getting warned to not throw at anyone.

[treydawgmt]

I'm a Cubs fan, and don't watch much Reds or Pirates. However, they're in 1st and 2nd right now. When this batter was hit, the pitcher approached him and the Pirates bench started towards the field according to the announcers. The announcers said they had already talked about the possibility of warning the benches before the game. Obviously there is bad blood going on. THEN 2 people get hit in the game. And we DON'T expect warnings? Really?

[BRUMP]

The announcers said they had already talked about the possibility of warning the benches before the game. Obviously there is bad blood going on.

That would have been better IMO.

[BRUMP]

And we DON'T expect warnings? Really?

Its not that I didnt expect warnings its that I can see why Hurdle is upset in this case. The rule was properly applied and the umpires did what they were supposed to do in this situation. But the fact that 2 pirates were hit and 0 reds were hit and both received warnings annoys Hurdle and understanably so.

[Umpire in Chief]

Lets put this in perspective why this was a warranted bench warning.

1. McCutchen was hit the night before.
   
2. Whether intentional or not Harrison was hit
   
3. Leake & Harrison exchange looks and/or some words
   

With #3 happening I'm 100% on board with the warnings. Once these type attitudes/behaviors happen we need to step in and that's what Gorman did. He prevented the escalation to the next step. Which is what the announcers were saying, "Baseball polices itself..." was going to be coming.

By issuing warnings to both sides the Pirates don't get their freebie since they don't have a warning yet. And there have been a number of times 1 team has been warned and the other does something stupid and is ejected even w/o the warning. I think this was good preventive umpiring.

[Mr Umpire]

Well, as an umpire, I don't care how upset Hurdle is nor do I "feel" for the guy. He should have gotten his batter earlier in the game.

[BRUMP]

Lets put this in perspective why this was a warranted bench warning.

1. McCutchen was hit the night before.
   
   
2. Whether intentional or not Harrison was hit
   
   
3. Leake & Harrison exchange looks and/or some words
   

With #3 happening I'm 100% on board with the warnings. Once these type attitudes/behaviors happen we need to step in and that's what Gorman did. He prevented the escalation to the next step. Which is what the announcers were saying, "Baseball polices itself..." was going to be coming.

By issuing warnings to both sides the Pirates don't get their freebie since they don't have a warning yet. And there have been a number of times 1 team has been warned and the other does something stupid and is ejected even w/o the warning. I think this was good preventive umpiring.

My point is maybe its time to revisit a rule that allows you to intentionally hit someone without the liaility of retaliation. IMO if its good enough for a warning (which means the umpire judged it to be intentional) it should be an EJ. If that were the rule there would be no retaliation from the Pirates, probably no stare down and everyone knows the ump means buisness and anymore wont be tolerated. Seems to be a lot better solution to me

[BRUMP]

Well, as an umpire, I don't care how upset Hurdle is nor do I "feel" for the guy. He should have gotten his batter earlier in the game.

See my above post. All Im trying to say is that I think this rule could use revisiting.

[Mr Umpire]

Well, as an umpire, I don't care how upset Hurdle is nor do I "feel" for the guy. He should have gotten his batter earlier in the game.

See my above post. All Im trying to say is that I think this rule could use revisiting.

Well, the rule wasn't intended to determine if the HBP was intentional for this purpose. It is to prevent any future intentional ones. The reason Leake stayed in the game is b/c the umpire didn't think it was intentional. But, he wanted to prevent any intentional ones from the Pirates. If he thought Leake's was intentional, then no warning would have been given. He would have been tossed.

[Umpire in Chief]

My point is maybe its time to revisit a rule that allows you to intentionally hit someone without the liaility of retaliation. IMO if its good enough for a warning (which means the umpire judged it to be intentional) it should be an EJ. If that were the rule there would be no retaliation from the Pirates, probably no stare down and everyone knows the ump means buisness and anymore wont be tolerated. Seems to be a lot better solution to me

If an umpire thinks it's intentional then the pitcher is going to be ejected, no warnings needed.

If there is some doubt, or if you think others thought it was intentional and payback may be coming, then issue the warning. ANd if you issue the warning issue it to both teams, otherwise it's like giving the other team a freebie.

Sometimes a plunk is easy to read sometimes there's a whole back story the umpires aren't aware of.

[mstaylor]

The warnings for both teams is to stop the shenanigans from continuing. The Pirates will get their pound of flesh another day. I assure you they will not let it lie. Invariably they will plunk somebody, warnings will happen and on it goes.