This is a classic

[Tyennie]

Just had to share this with you all. Early morning game (7:30) last Friday. AmLg tourny. Let me preface by saying that the offensive team in this sitch is from my town (No, there is no conflict of interest) I am PU. Play at first, BU calls F3 off the bag and signals safe. The DC, wants him to get help. (I later find out, this is only to get the OM - 'going') So BU calls me up, I respond:

TY "I like pepperoni on my pizza..... Yup he was off the bag, but i really am not sure if he got his foot back before the BR"

BU - Nope he didn't. Ok safe.

so I turn around, BU says safe. and OC (in 3B box) goes ballistic looking at me, coming across field. "How can you make that call from there, you are twenty feet further away. He had the same angle as you. You guys need to get out of town." My BU and I are just astonished at this, looking at each other with the WTH expression. I finally call time, and loudly tell coach. "Your runner is on the bag, can we just leave it there?" OM's response was a simple "Oh" At the half inning break he comes over and apologizes, I asked him "Hey, who the does not have their head in the game?"

This guy made a total jerk out of himself. It was great. :rollinglaugh:

[Jocko]

Just had to share this with you all. Early morning game (7:30) last Friday. AmLg tourny. Let me preface by saying that the offensive team in this sitch is from my town (No, there is no conflict of interest) I am PU. Play at first, BU calls F3 off the bag and signals safe. The DC, wants him to get help. (I later find out, this is only to get the OM - 'going') So BU calls me up, I respond:

TY "I like pepperoni on my pizza..... Yup he was off the bag, but i really am not sure if he got his foot back before the BR"

BU - Nope he didn't. Ok safe.

so I turn around, BU says safe. and OC (in 3B box) goes ballistic looking at me, coming across field. "How can you make that call from there, you are twenty feet further away. He had the same angle as you. You guys need to get out of town." My BU and I are just astonished at this, looking at each other with the WTH expression. I finally call time, and loudly tell coach. "Your runner is on the bag, can we just leave it there?" OM's response was a simple "Oh" At the half inning break he comes over and apologizes, I asked him "Hey, who the does not have their head in the game?"

This guy made a total jerk out of himself. It was great.

Don't you love watching them eat Nikes?

[Tyennie]

LMAO, it was great. Because this local manager has been a PITA most of my umpiring career here.

[Jocko]

I left the park where I cut my teeth when I enforced a rule during fall ball. The coach it affected was buddies with UIC and President. I got black balled. I've seen him in travel ball tournaments and around town. I ignore him. This season, I had a MS game in this town. He came up to me in the parking lot acting like we were old buddies. I played it off like I didn't recognize him.

[umpire_scott]

I had a play where I was in "C" made a call at first base in like the third inning. Ball clearly beat the runner, I call him out. I never saw the foot even move. First base coach goes crazy jumping up and down saying he was never on the base. He quickly calms down and asks if I would mind getting help from my PU. I say sure and call time and we conference. PU says foot was on the whole time. I signal that the out call remains. Two innings later another play at first, same team at bat. Throw comes in high and first baseman leaps then comes down. His feet are straddling the base, but I see his back foot come up towards the bag and it appears to make contact with the back of the bag. I signal out. First base coach goes through his same antics, but never asks for time, nor for me to get help. So I ignore his actions. He then yells that's the second one I missed and that I needed to get into better position to make those calls. I'm thinking where exactly does he expect me to go? Between inning I go over to their dugout and talk to the head coach, and making sure the nutcase assistant coach can hear me I tell him that he might want to tell his assistant coach that I have no problem getting a second opinion on a pulled foot if the coach asks me. But jumping around and yelling about a call is not asking me to get help. Funny thing is I asked the PU after the game and he said that the back foot didn't get back to the base. So the coach was right, but because he could not keep his tirade under control and make a simple request he lost out.

[clawdad]

He then yells that's the second one I missed and that I needed to get into better position to make those calls.

My translation: Mr. Umpire, I've had my fill of watching this game from my vantage point. Please eject me so that I can beat the traffic out of here

[umpire_scott]

He then yells that's the second one I missed and that I needed to get into better position to make those calls.

My translation: Mr. Umpire, I've had my fill of watching this game from my vantage point. Please eject me so that I can beat the traffic out of here

We have the thread for common acronyms. We should have one for common translations as well. :lol:

[zm1283]

I had a play where I was in "C" made a call at first base in like the third inning. Ball clearly beat the runner, I call him out. I never saw the foot even move. First base coach goes crazy jumping up and down saying he was never on the base. He quickly calms down and asks if I would mind getting help from my PU. I say sure and call time and we conference. PU says foot was on the whole time. I signal that the out call remains. Two innings later another play at first, same team at bat. Throw comes in high and first baseman leaps then comes down. His feet are straddling the base, but I see his back foot come up towards the bag and it appears to make contact with the back of the bag. I signal out. First base coach goes through his same antics, but never asks for time, nor for me to get help. So I ignore his actions. He then yells that's the second one I missed and that I needed to get into better position to make those calls. I'm thinking where exactly does he expect me to go? Between inning I go over to their dugout and talk to the head coach, and making sure the nutcase assistant coach can hear me I tell him that he might want to tell his assistant coach that I have no problem getting a second opinion on a pulled foot if the coach asks me. But jumping around and yelling about a call is not asking me to get help. Funny thing is I asked the PU after the game and he said that the back foot didn't get back to the base. So the coach was right, but because he could not keep his tirade under control and make a simple request he lost out.

I would respond to this with "I don't talk to assistant coaches, cut it out". If he chooses to continue his "antics", he would be sent packing.

I would also not go to their dugout or talk to the HC about him.

[umpire_scott]

I had a play where I was in "C" made a call at first base in like the third inning. Ball clearly beat the runner, I call him out. I never saw the foot even move. First base coach goes crazy jumping up and down saying he was never on the base. He quickly calms down and asks if I would mind getting help from my PU. I say sure and call time and we conference. PU says foot was on the whole time. I signal that the out call remains. Two innings later another play at first, same team at bat. Throw comes in high and first baseman leaps then comes down. His feet are straddling the base, but I see his back foot come up towards the bag and it appears to make contact with the back of the bag. I signal out. First base coach goes through his same antics, but never asks for time, nor for me to get help. So I ignore his actions. He then yells that's the second one I missed and that I needed to get into better position to make those calls. I'm thinking where exactly does he expect me to go? Between inning I go over to their dugout and talk to the head coach, and making sure the nutcase assistant coach can hear me I tell him that he might want to tell his assistant coach that I have no problem getting a second opinion on a pulled foot if the coach asks me. But jumping around and yelling about a call is not asking me to get help. Funny thing is I asked the PU after the game and he said that the back foot didn't get back to the base. So the coach was right, but because he could not keep his tirade under control and make a simple request he lost out.

I would respond to this with "I don't talk to assistant coaches, cut it out". If he chooses to continue his "antics", he would be sent packing.

I would also not go to their dugout or talk to the HC about him.

Just curious why won't you talk to an assistant coach that calls time and asks for an appeal on a pulled foot? He's the one that was in the first base coaches box. The head coach was at 3rd and him appealing it would have been illogical as he was further away than I was. I guess I could have waited for the head coach to call time and then confer with the assistant and then come talke to me, but that seems rather inefficient. Are you saying you would never talk to the assistant or this particular nutcase assistant.

I'm also curious as to why you would not have talked to the coach? Is it just that you feel that it could cause more harm than good in that you never know how that situation will come out? I can see that line of thinking for sure. I often leave those situations alone, but sometimes I like to be proactive about a coach to avoid a third occurrence of the same thing.

[UmpTTS43]

I think a visit to Springfield would be an excellent suggestion.

[zm1283]

I had a play where I was in "C" made a call at first base in like the third inning. Ball clearly beat the runner, I call him out. I never saw the foot even move. First base coach goes crazy jumping up and down saying he was never on the base. He quickly calms down and asks if I would mind getting help from my PU. I say sure and call time and we conference. PU says foot was on the whole time. I signal that the out call remains. Two innings later another play at first, same team at bat. Throw comes in high and first baseman leaps then comes down. His feet are straddling the base, but I see his back foot come up towards the bag and it appears to make contact with the back of the bag. I signal out. First base coach goes through his same antics, but never asks for time, nor for me to get help. So I ignore his actions. He then yells that's the second one I missed and that I needed to get into better position to make those calls. I'm thinking where exactly does he expect me to go? Between inning I go over to their dugout and talk to the head coach, and making sure the nutcase assistant coach can hear me I tell him that he might want to tell his assistant coach that I have no problem getting a second opinion on a pulled foot if the coach asks me. But jumping around and yelling about a call is not asking me to get help. Funny thing is I asked the PU after the game and he said that the back foot didn't get back to the base. So the coach was right, but because he could not keep his tirade under control and make a simple request he lost out.

I would respond to this with "I don't talk to assistant coaches, cut it out". If he chooses to continue his "antics", he would be sent packing.

I would also not go to their dugout or talk to the HC about him.

Just curious why won't you talk to an assistant coach that calls time and asks for an appeal on a pulled foot? He's the one that was in the first base coaches box. The head coach was at 3rd and him appealing it would have been illogical as he was further away than I was. I guess I could have waited for the head coach to call time and then confer with the assistant and then come talke to me, but that seems rather inefficient. Are you saying you would never talk to the assistant or this particular nutcase assistant.

I'm also curious as to why you would not have talked to the coach? Is it just that you feel that it could cause more harm than good in that you never know how that situation will come out? I can see that line of thinking for sure. I often leave those situations alone, but sometimes I like to be proactive about a coach to avoid a third occurrence of the same thing.

Assistant coaches are there to direct traffic on the bases. They don't exist when it comes to us making calls. They do not get to call time and appeal a pulled foot, and they sure as heck don't get to tell us how many we've missed or jump around like idiots after something doesn't go their way. The head coach is the only one who gets to "argue" a call. Assistants get very little leeway. I would never talk to an assistant who is doing anything but talking in a very low-key, non-aggressive manner.

I would not have talked to the head coach because in your story, it involved going to the dugout, which is off limits. The dugout is their area and I stay out of it. If the head coach is worried about his assistant being an idiot, he can talk to him, but it isn't my job to babysit his assistants for him. The way you stop this from happening a third time (Or second time for that matter) is to do what I said in my last post. Address it directly and deal with it if he doesn't figure it out.

I wouldn't honor his first request on the pulled foot in your story. We don't let anyone in the park ask us to get help. The head coach gets to and that's it.

I think a visit to Springfield would be an excellent suggestion.

Semi-subtle shameless plug of the day.

[mstaylor]

I am a little more tolerate than most with assts. The rule does not say a coach can't question a call, it says he can't leave his coaching box or dugout to do so. If he is coaching first and wants to question the call, that's fine, just don't come across the infield to do it.

[Jocko]

1BC has as good a look at it as anyone. I don't have a problem with him PROPERLY requesting an appeal. The right way in the appropriate situation.

[Dannytheman]

Like some others, I am OK if a base coach wants an explanation and he reasonably requests it. But he should know that I give longer rope to the manager. If the base coach wants to argue, he does not get the same length of rope as the head coach. I am faster at the trigger with ASSistants.

[umpire_scott]

Like some others, I am OK if a base coach wants an explanation and he reasonably requests it. But he should know that I give longer rope to the manager. If the base coach wants to argue, he does not get the same length of rope as the head coach. I am faster at the trigger with ASSistants.

O.K. that's exactly how I handle them as well. I will also go to the head coach and tell him that he's responsible for controlling the conduct of his assistants. But if an assistant is the one that is questioning the call, and does so respectfully I will talk to them.

[RichMSN]

I have granted exactly 3 requests to "get help" in 25 years. I get the feeling it happens way too often in the baseball world. I'm getting a heckuva look at the feet and at swipe tags by moving quickly across the diamond towards the 45' line and coming set.

If I honestly think I missed something, I'll get help. Otherwise, I tell the coach that (1) I had a good look at it and (2) no, I won't ask the plate umpire.

I have no problem with assistants until they get loud or leave the coach's box.

[umpire_scott]

I have granted exactly 3 requests to "get help" in 25 years. I get the feeling it happens way too often in the baseball world. I'm getting a heckuva look at the feet and at swipe tags by moving quickly across the diamond towards the 45' line and coming set.

If I honestly think I missed something, I'll get help. Otherwise, I tell the coach that (1) I had a good look at it and (2) no, I won't ask the plate umpire.

I have no problem with assistants until they get loud or leave the coach's box.

The only argument I have with you here is from "C" position on a grounder to the left side you are somewhat limited to how close you can get because you have to consider the position of the fielder and his throwing lane. Most first basemen put their foot to the side of the bag, pressed up against it. On any low throw and thus stretch there is going to be a chance of the foot leaving it's contact point with the bag, and you CANNOT see that . You can see it if it moves substantially but it could barely lose contact and you would not know.

[noumpere]

but it could barely lose contact and you would not know.

Nor would I care, at least in most plays.

[zm1283]

I have granted exactly 3 requests to "get help" in 25 years. I get the feeling it happens way too often in the baseball world. I'm getting a heckuva look at the feet and at swipe tags by moving quickly across the diamond towards the 45' line and coming set.

If I honestly think I missed something, I'll get help. Otherwise, I tell the coach that (1) I had a good look at it and (2) no, I won't ask the plate umpire.

I have no problem with assistants until they get loud or leave the coach's box.

The only argument I have with you here is from "C" position on a grounder to the left side you are somewhat limited to how close you can get because you have to consider the position of the fielder and his throwing lane. Most first basemen put their foot to the side of the bag, pressed up against it. On any low throw and thus stretch there is going to be a chance of the foot leaving it's contact point with the bag, and you CANNOT see that . You can see it if it moves substantially but it could barely lose contact and you would not know.

If you move your feet and get a good look, you can see it from the middle.

[umpire_scott]

I have granted exactly 3 requests to "get help" in 25 years. I get the feeling it happens way too often in the baseball world. I'm getting a heckuva look at the feet and at swipe tags by moving quickly across the diamond towards the 45' line and coming set.

If I honestly think I missed something, I'll get help. Otherwise, I tell the coach that (1) I had a good look at it and (2) no, I won't ask the plate umpire.

I have no problem with assistants until they get loud or leave the coach's box.

The only argument I have with you here is from "C" position on a grounder to the left side you are somewhat limited to how close you can get because you have to consider the position of the fielder and his throwing lane. Most first basemen put their foot to the side of the bag, pressed up against it. On any low throw and thus stretch there is going to be a chance of the foot leaving it's contact point with the bag, and you CANNOT see that . You can see it if it moves substantially but it could barely lose contact and you would not know.

If you move your feet and get a good look, you can see it from the middle.

I'm just not sure how you can see space between a foot and a bag from that angle no matter how close you are. If it's obvious you can. But if there is a minute amount of space then the PU can see it much better from his angle, especially if he's trailing like he should be.

[umpire_scott]

but it could barely lose contact and you would not know.

Nor would I care, at least in most plays.

How can you say "nor would I care"? If the OC is asking you to get help from your partner aren't you professionally obligated to care?

[noumpere]

I'm just not sure how you can see space between a foot and a bag from that angle no matter how close you are. If it's obvious you can. But if there is a minute amount of space then the PU can see it much better from his angle, especially if he's trailing like he should be.

If your in the middle then there are runners on base and PU will not be trailing up the line.

And the play in my miond is one where the first baseman just kind of rolls up on his toes so he hasnt moved his foot but might no longer actually be touching the base. As someone once told me dont be a detective. Its kind of like the play at second -- it's routine, nothing unusual -- dont go looking for stuff to call. Just get the out.

[zm1283]

I have granted exactly 3 requests to "get help" in 25 years. I get the feeling it happens way too often in the baseball world. I'm getting a heckuva look at the feet and at swipe tags by moving quickly across the diamond towards the 45' line and coming set.

If I honestly think I missed something, I'll get help. Otherwise, I tell the coach that (1) I had a good look at it and (2) no, I won't ask the plate umpire.

I have no problem with assistants until they get loud or leave the coach's box.

The only argument I have with you here is from "C" position on a grounder to the left side you are somewhat limited to how close you can get because you have to consider the position of the fielder and his throwing lane. Most first basemen put their foot to the side of the bag, pressed up against it. On any low throw and thus stretch there is going to be a chance of the foot leaving it's contact point with the bag, and you CANNOT see that . You can see it if it moves substantially but it could barely lose contact and you would not know.

If you move your feet and get a good look, you can see it from the middle.

I'm just not sure how you can see space between a foot and a bag from that angle no matter how close you are. If it's obvious you can. But if there is a minute amount of space then the PU can see it much better from his angle, especially if he's trailing like he should be.

It's not about how close you are. It's about the angle you're at. You have to work to get angles on the bases, especially in 2-man. Working the bases in 2-man with good players is one of the harder things in umpiring IMO. Everyone thinks the BU has it a lot easier, but that really isn't true.

Also, if the BU is in the middle like we're talking here, that means there are runners on base. The PU would not be going up the 1B line like he would with no runners on. If the runners are anywhere but first base, he really can't go very far at all, so his look won't always be that good.

[umpire_scott]

I'm just not sure how you can see space between a foot and a bag from that angle no matter how close you are. If it's obvious you can. But if there is a minute amount of space then the PU can see it much better from his angle, especially if he's trailing like he should be.

If your in the middle then there are runners on base and PU will not be trailing up the line.

And the play in my miond is one where the first baseman just kind of rolls up on his toes so he hasnt moved his foot but might no longer actually be touching the base. As someone once told me dont be a detective. Its kind of like the play at second -- it's routine, nothing unusual -- dont go looking for stuff to call. Just get the out.

On that play you are not looking for stuff. The first base coach likely SAW the foot detach from the bag and rightfully wants his batter called safe. It's not the umpire "looking for stuff" it's the coach questioning the call.

[RichMSN]

I have granted exactly 3 requests to "get help" in 25 years. I get the feeling it happens way too often in the baseball world. I'm getting a heckuva look at the feet and at swipe tags by moving quickly across the diamond towards the 45' line and coming set.

If I honestly think I missed something, I'll get help. Otherwise, I tell the coach that (1) I had a good look at it and (2) no, I won't ask the plate umpire.

I have no problem with assistants until they get loud or leave the coach's box.

The only argument I have with you here is from "C" position on a grounder to the left side you are somewhat limited to how close you can get because you have to consider the position of the fielder and his throwing lane. Most first basemen put their foot to the side of the bag, pressed up against it. On any low throw and thus stretch there is going to be a chance of the foot leaving it's contact point with the bag, and you CANNOT see that . You can see it if it moves substantially but it could barely lose contact and you would not know.

You are not limited in any way. Turn chest to ball while moving towards the working area behind the mound. When the fielder throws, take a few quick steps towards the 45' line and come set. You'll see everything you need to see.