This is a classic

[RichMSN]

I'm just not sure how you can see space between a foot and a bag from that angle no matter how close you are. If it's obvious you can. But if there is a minute amount of space then the PU can see it much better from his angle, especially if he's trailing like he should be.

If your in the middle then there are runners on base and PU will not be trailing up the line.

And the play in my miond is one where the first baseman just kind of rolls up on his toes so he hasnt moved his foot but might no longer actually be touching the base. As someone once told me dont be a detective. Its kind of like the play at second -- it's routine, nothing unusual -- dont go looking for stuff to call. Just get the out.

On that play you are not looking for stuff. The first base coach likely SAW the foot detach from the bag and rightfully wants his batter called safe. It's not the umpire "looking for stuff" it's the coach questioning the call.

Oh, nonsense. The coach sees the foot come off and assumes it did so before the ball was in the glove. EVERY time I hear a coach complain about a pulled foot it's because he looks down a second after the play happens at the bag. I'm the only person actually looking at the foot as the play happens.

They're looking to buy calls, nothing more. Stop giving them the chance to do so already.

[umpire_scott]

I have granted exactly 3 requests to "get help" in 25 years. I get the feeling it happens way too often in the baseball world. I'm getting a heckuva look at the feet and at swipe tags by moving quickly across the diamond towards the 45' line and coming set.

If I honestly think I missed something, I'll get help. Otherwise, I tell the coach that (1) I had a good look at it and (2) no, I won't ask the plate umpire.

I have no problem with assistants until they get loud or leave the coach's box.

The only argument I have with you here is from "C" position on a grounder to the left side you are somewhat limited to how close you can get because you have to consider the position of the fielder and his throwing lane. Most first basemen put their foot to the side of the bag, pressed up against it. On any low throw and thus stretch there is going to be a chance of the foot leaving it's contact point with the bag, and you CANNOT see that . You can see it if it moves substantially but it could barely lose contact and you would not know.

You are not limited in any way. Turn chest to ball while moving towards the working area behind the mound. When the fielder throws, take a few quick steps towards the 45' line and come set. You'll see everything you need to see.

Runners on first and second. Ground ball to SS or 3B. You don't even know which base the throw is going to. There is no way that you can get a better view of a pulled foot if they decide to go to first than the plate umpire will have from his position coming out from behind home plate. If this was the case then why is it an accepted practice to ask the PU for help on the pulled foot. In the FED mechanics book it even lists "watching for a pulled foot" as the responsibility of the PU.

[umpire_scott]

I'm just not sure how you can see space between a foot and a bag from that angle no matter how close you are. If it's obvious you can. But if there is a minute amount of space then the PU can see it much better from his angle, especially if he's trailing like he should be.

If your in the middle then there are runners on base and PU will not be trailing up the line.

And the play in my miond is one where the first baseman just kind of rolls up on his toes so he hasnt moved his foot but might no longer actually be touching the base. As someone once told me dont be a detective. Its kind of like the play at second -- it's routine, nothing unusual -- dont go looking for stuff to call. Just get the out.

On that play you are not looking for stuff. The first base coach likely SAW the foot detach from the bag and rightfully wants his batter called safe. It's not the umpire "looking for stuff" it's the coach questioning the call.

Oh, nonsense. The coach sees the foot come off and assumes it did so before the ball was in the glove. EVERY time I hear a coach complain about a pulled foot it's because he looks down a second after the play happens at the bag. I'm the only person actually looking at the foot as the play happens.

They're looking to buy calls, nothing more. Stop giving them the chance to do so already.

Once again that's not the point. The previous post implied that the umpires should not play "detective" or "go looking for stuff to call". In this case it's the COACH that is questioning the call, not the UMPIRES. The post makes no sense. If a coach questions the pulled foot when the first basemen possibly loses contact with the inside of the base the PU has the best angle to make that call. It is physically impossible for the BU to know for sure if there was space between the foot and the bag, unless the foot pulled substantially, in which case he probably would have already made the call.

[umpire_scott]

I have granted exactly 3 requests to "get help" in 25 years. I get the feeling it happens way too often in the baseball world. I'm getting a heckuva look at the feet and at swipe tags by moving quickly across the diamond towards the 45' line and coming set.

If I honestly think I missed something, I'll get help. Otherwise, I tell the coach that (1) I had a good look at it and (2) no, I won't ask the plate umpire.

I have no problem with assistants until they get loud or leave the coach's box.

The only argument I have with you here is from "C" position on a grounder to the left side you are somewhat limited to how close you can get because you have to consider the position of the fielder and his throwing lane. Most first basemen put their foot to the side of the bag, pressed up against it. On any low throw and thus stretch there is going to be a chance of the foot leaving it's contact point with the bag, and you CANNOT see that . You can see it if it moves substantially but it could barely lose contact and you would not know.

You are not limited in any way. Turn chest to ball while moving towards the working area behind the mound. When the fielder throws, take a few quick steps towards the 45' line and come set. You'll see everything you need to see.

Geometry says you are wrong. Once again if you see the foot off then you make the call. But there is a good chance that it looks from your vantage point that the foot is still in contact when it really isn't. A different angle looking down the base line to that part of the bag is necessary to get the best look. You cannot nor are you supposed to get into that position while in "C". That's why one of the responsibilities outlined for the PU in 2-man mechanics is to look for the pulled foot.

This is my problem with the experts on here. I get creamed for not agreeing with them, but they make points that no sensible person could agree with at times. Not all the time. But at times, like this one, they are so stubborn, that it's hard to take them seriously.

How can anyone argue that if there is a space of say 2 inches between the foot and the bag that they can see that from any position they would have time to get to when starting in "C" on a grounder in the infield. It's a ludicrous argument. You can't see the bag through the foot.

[umpire_scott]

Before I get accused of something else I do understand that you have to work to get angles. But you are not always able to get to a good angle based on runner, ball flight, throwing lanes, etc. Many things impact your ability to get a good angle. You should try and get the best angle but at some point you have to stop moving, set your body, and make the call.

[Dragon29]

Scott,

I don't think anyone is telling you 2-man is perfect or that there isn't opprtunity for errors and corrections. It's that, in the example you used where there is R1 & R2 and a ball hit to the left side of the infield, the PU will not be coming up the 1BL to watch for a pulled foot at 1B anyway so you'd better be ready and sell your call, whether you're certain about that 2" gap or not. If you go to the PU and ask him, his most likely response will be , "I've got nothing. I was watching the lead runner round 3B." Now, he may have seen something helpful, but you can't count on it in that situation.

Oh, and as far as arguing a call goes, Asst. Coaches do not get to do this. Request time? Sure. Ask you to get help? Maybe, if he's not being an idiot about it. Request a lengthy explanation or worse yet, argue a call? No way, no how. Generally, the hierarchy on the field should be:

1: Umpires

2: Managers

3: Players

4: Cockroaches and other assorted animalculi

5: Assistant coaches

[umpire_scott]

Scott,

I don't think anyone is telling you 2-man is perfect or that there isn't opprtunity for errors and corrections. It's that, in the example you used where there is R1 & R2 and a ball hit to the left side of the infield, the PU will not be coming up the 1BL to watch for a pulled foot at 1B anyway so you'd better be ready and sell your call, whether you're certain about that 2" gap or not. If you go to the PU and ask him, his most likely response will be , "I've got nothing. I was watching the lead runner round 3B." Now, he may have seen something helpful, but you can't count on it in that situation.

Oh, and as far as arguing a call goes, Asst. Coaches do not get to do this. Request time? Sure. Ask you to get help? Maybe, if he's not being an idiot about it. Request a lengthy explanation or worse yet, argue a call? No way, no how. Generally, the hierarchy on the field should be:

1: Umpires

2: Managers

3: Players

4: Cockroaches and other assorted animalculi

5: Assistant coaches

I agree with EVERYTHING in this post. I always make my call. But Rich said he's gone for help on a pulled foot 3 times in 25 years. That sounds incredibly arrogant to me. If a coach asks me I'm going to ask my partner. He may or may not have anything. But to only ask for help 3 times in 25 years means he's turned down numerous requests. I can't take what he says seriously when he makes that claim. I don't care how much experience he has.

the runner on 1st and 2nd example was mostly used to show that "C" can't always get into position. But his claim of 3 times in 25 years includes other circumstances where the PU might have not been going towards third. Maybe he has just moved out from behind the plate. I still respect his view from that vantage point for space between foot and bag.

[Dragon29]

Scott,

Going for help is not only not required, it's generally not a good idea - which is probably why Rich has only done it 3 times in 25 years. (this may be an exaggeration, but I understand hsi point)

Unless you feel you need help, your best response to this request is: "I don't need help, coach." or something similar like, "I had a good view." or "I saw it plainly.", etc...

Going for help every time you're asked makes you look weak (not cooperative, which is what I first thought, too) and sets a bad precedent not only for the rest of the game, but for those teams going forward.

Again, if you're not sure, by all means go ask your partner. But, if you're certain and you're only going for help to appease the coach, I wouldn't.

[UMP45]

:banghead:

[scrounge]

scott, may I suggest that if you or your partners are continually asking for help upon request from coaches when you/they are certain that it's not a swing, you're not appeasing them, you're enabling them.

[umpire_scott]

scott, may I suggest that if you or your partners are continually asking for help upon request from coaches when you/they are certain that it's not a swing, you're not appeasing them, you're enabling them.

Scrounge,

I'm being told on one thread to ALWAYS go for help when asked on the check swing, even if I'm sure, and no matter what position the BU is in; and to almost NEVER go for help on a pulled foot. So on which one am I enabling and which one am I not?

[umpire_scott]

Scott,

Going for help is not only not required, it's generally not a good idea - which is probably why Rich has only done it 3 times in 25 years. (this may be an exaggeration, but I understand hsi point)

Unless you feel you need help, your best response to this request is: "I don't need help, coach." or something similar like, "I had a good view." or "I saw it plainly.", etc...

Going for help every time you're asked makes you look weak (not cooperative, which is what I first thought, too) and sets a bad precedent not only for the rest of the game, but for those teams going forward.

Again, if you're not sure, by all means go ask your partner. But, if you're certain and you're only going for help to appease the coach, I wouldn't.

I understand that going for help every time can make you look weak. When I have seen the play clearly I've told many coaches that I don't need help I saw it clearly. But when we are talking about the foot being off the bag by a few inches I'm smart enough to know that the first base coach quite possibly has a better view of that potential space between the bag and foot than I do from "C" (or wherever I moved to after starting in "C"). I'm not about to tell him that I saw it if it's not humanly possible to do so. On that play I can't see how it can make me look weak to go to my partner for help.

For example I had a play a few weeks ago where the throw to first was errant but beat the runner by several steps. The first baseman was straddling the bag. His front foot was clearly not on the bag. He brought his back foot towards the bag however before the runner got there. I called him out. First base coach went a little crazy, but never asked me to check with my partner. So I didn't. I asked my partner afterwards and he said that the foot came back towards the bag but never made it all the way to the bag.

[LMSANS]

I was PU for an adult league game a couple of years back. Partner is in A. He misses a pulled foot by 2 feet! 1BC & BR have coniptions. But, not once did they ask him to get help. I was trying to signal that I had additional information, but since he didn't want to pre-game that was for naught.

My point is not about my partner (one of the reasons I don't do this league any more), but rather, if they don't ask you to get help keep the out. :wave:

[noumpere]

Before I get accused of something else I do understand that you have to work to get angles. But you are not always able to get to a good angle based on runner, ball flight, throwing lanes, etc. Many things impact your ability to get a good angle. You should try and get the best angle but at some point you have to stop moving, set your body, and make the call.

And at some point they should hire three umpires and at some point they should just accept that you called what you saw and that s*** happens. And if you dont see the foot move then assume it was on the base.

[Dragon29]

I'm being told on one thread to ALWAYS go for help when asked on the check swing, even if I'm sure, and no matter what position the BU is in; and to almost NEVER go for help on a pulled foot. So on which one am I enabling and which one am I not?

Scott,

Check swings are a completely different animal than everything else you might need to get help on. Follow both pieces of advice.

The only other thing I'll say is that I wouldn't base my decision on whether or not to go for help (on something like a pulled foot) on what I think one of the coaches may or may not have seen, nor whether or not I think they had a better view than I did.

Go for help only when you feel you may have missed something and are correctly asked by the manager to do so.

[RichMSN]

Scott,

Going for help is not only not required, it's generally not a good idea - which is probably why Rich has only done it 3 times in 25 years. (this may be an exaggeration, but I understand hsi point)

Unless you feel you need help, your best response to this request is: "I don't need help, coach." or something similar like, "I had a good view." or "I saw it plainly.", etc...

Going for help every time you're asked makes you look weak (not cooperative, which is what I first thought, too) and sets a bad precedent not only for the rest of the game, but for those teams going forward.

Again, if you're not sure, by all means go ask your partner. But, if you're certain and you're only going for help to appease the coach, I wouldn't.

I understand that going for help every time can make you look weak. When I have seen the play clearly I've told many coaches that I don't need help I saw it clearly. But when we are talking about the foot being off the bag by a few inches I'm smart enough to know that the first base coach quite possibly has a better view of that potential space between the bag and foot than I do from "C" (or wherever I moved to after starting in "C"). I'm not about to tell him that I saw it if it's not humanly possible to do so. On that play I can't see how it can make me look weak to go to my partner for help.

For example I had a play a few weeks ago where the throw to first was errant but beat the runner by several steps. The first baseman was straddling the bag. His front foot was clearly not on the bag. He brought his back foot towards the bag however before the runner got there. I called him out. First base coach went a little crazy, but never asked me to check with my partner. So I didn't. I asked my partner afterwards and he said that the foot came back towards the bag but never made it all the way to the bag.

The first base coach has *no clue*. He's not looking at the foot as the ball is caught, which is the *only* time it matters. The only person that looks down at the foot as the ball is being caught is the *umpire*. I can't tell you how many times a first base coach has cried out for a pulled foot when I'm 100% certain that the foot was held until the split-second *after* the ball was caught.

If you think he's off by a blade of grass or three, he's on.

3 in 25 years may be an exaggeration. I do know that it's exactly 3 since the year 2001. And I'll probably work 120 games this year and work 80-120 every year (I'm in the north, where 200 games just isn't possible even if I wanted to work that many). Everything before 2001 is a bit fuzzy. :D

[RichMSN]

Scott,

Going for help is not only not required, it's generally not a good idea - which is probably why Rich has only done it 3 times in 25 years. (this may be an exaggeration, but I understand hsi point)

Unless you feel you need help, your best response to this request is: "I don't need help, coach." or something similar like, "I had a good view." or "I saw it plainly.", etc...

Going for help every time you're asked makes you look weak (not cooperative, which is what I first thought, too) and sets a bad precedent not only for the rest of the game, but for those teams going forward.

Again, if you're not sure, by all means go ask your partner. But, if you're certain and you're only going for help to appease the coach, I wouldn't.

I understand that going for help every time can make you look weak. When I have seen the play clearly I've told many coaches that I don't need help I saw it clearly. But when we are talking about the foot being off the bag by a few inches I'm smart enough to know that the first base coach quite possibly has a better view of that potential space between the bag and foot than I do from "C" (or wherever I moved to after starting in "C"). I'm not about to tell him that I saw it if it's not humanly possible to do so.

Stop thinking it's not humanly possible to do so. If you're saying that, then you simply are moving to the wrong angle or are not moving quickly or far enough to get the right look.

We work 2-man in college games here. I've never had a partner ask me for help from the C position and I've never asked myself in a college game. It's not because we're guessing out there, either.

[Dragon29]

Everything before 2001 is a bit fuzzy.

Where have I heard that before?!!???

[umpire_scott]

I'm being told on one thread to ALWAYS go for help when asked on the check swing, even if I'm sure, and no matter what position the BU is in; and to almost NEVER go for help on a pulled foot. So on which one am I enabling and which one am I not?

Scott,

Check swings are a completely different animal than everything else you might need to get help on. Follow both pieces of advice.

The only other thing I'll say is that I wouldn't base my decision on whether or not to go for help (on something like a pulled foot) on what I think one of the coaches may or may not have seen, nor whether or not I think they had a better view than I did.

Go for help only when you feel you may have missed something and are correctly asked by the manager to do so.

Absolutely agree. And that little space between foot and bag I cannot see. I know that ahead of time. If the first baseman's foot is on top of the bag I can see whether he pulled his foot or not. Generally no need to get help. If the coach says "his foot was slightly in front of the the inside of the bag and not in contact" I'm going to PU for help. This is not rocket or umpiring science here. This is common sense. I've coached and I've umpired. Most baseball people that I talk to are well versed on the fact that sometimes the foot of the first baseman can be not in contact with the base and a BU from the middle will not be able to see this. It's not about being in a good position or angle. It's about physics. The ONLY angles that the entire inside of the foot can be seen as well as the entire inside of the bag are from the baseline or overhead. First base coach is close enough to get that overhead angle, and PU has the baseline angle. "B" or "C" or any variation based on movement have neither angle. Really arguing this point is completely irrational. It's not really debatable. If a coach at first moved enough to get a good overhead or baseline view from behind and clearly saw the space, and then you tell him that you saw it fine (when he knows you can't), and then you refuse to get help, how does that make you look? I've coached and I can tell you what I would think of you.

[umpire_scott]

Scott,

Going for help is not only not required, it's generally not a good idea - which is probably why Rich has only done it 3 times in 25 years. (this may be an exaggeration, but I understand hsi point)

Unless you feel you need help, your best response to this request is: "I don't need help, coach." or something similar like, "I had a good view." or "I saw it plainly.", etc...

Going for help every time you're asked makes you look weak (not cooperative, which is what I first thought, too) and sets a bad precedent not only for the rest of the game, but for those teams going forward.

Again, if you're not sure, by all means go ask your partner. But, if you're certain and you're only going for help to appease the coach, I wouldn't.

I understand that going for help every time can make you look weak. When I have seen the play clearly I've told many coaches that I don't need help I saw it clearly. But when we are talking about the foot being off the bag by a few inches I'm smart enough to know that the first base coach quite possibly has a better view of that potential space between the bag and foot than I do from "C" (or wherever I moved to after starting in "C"). I'm not about to tell him that I saw it if it's not humanly possible to do so.

Stop thinking it's not humanly possible to do so. If you're saying that, then you simply are moving to the wrong angle or are not moving quickly or far enough to get the right look.

We work 2-man in college games here. I've never had a partner ask me for help from the C position and I've never asked myself in a college game. It's not because we're guessing out there, either.

I didn't say it's NEVER humanly possible to do so. I said there are situations where it's not humanly possible. And those situations happen more like 3 times per year than 3 times every 25 years.

[umpire_scott]

Scott,

Going for help is not only not required, it's generally not a good idea - which is probably why Rich has only done it 3 times in 25 years. (this may be an exaggeration, but I understand hsi point)

Unless you feel you need help, your best response to this request is: "I don't need help, coach." or something similar like, "I had a good view." or "I saw it plainly.", etc...

Going for help every time you're asked makes you look weak (not cooperative, which is what I first thought, too) and sets a bad precedent not only for the rest of the game, but for those teams going forward.

Again, if you're not sure, by all means go ask your partner. But, if you're certain and you're only going for help to appease the coach, I wouldn't.

I understand that going for help every time can make you look weak. When I have seen the play clearly I've told many coaches that I don't need help I saw it clearly. But when we are talking about the foot being off the bag by a few inches I'm smart enough to know that the first base coach quite possibly has a better view of that potential space between the bag and foot than I do from "C" (or wherever I moved to after starting in "C"). I'm not about to tell him that I saw it if it's not humanly possible to do so. On that play I can't see how it can make me look weak to go to my partner for help.

For example I had a play a few weeks ago where the throw to first was errant but beat the runner by several steps. The first baseman was straddling the bag. His front foot was clearly not on the bag. He brought his back foot towards the bag however before the runner got there. I called him out. First base coach went a little crazy, but never asked me to check with my partner. So I didn't. I asked my partner afterwards and he said that the foot came back towards the bag but never made it all the way to the bag.

The first base coach has *no clue*. He's not looking at the foot as the ball is caught, which is the *only* time it matters. The only person that looks down at the foot as the ball is being caught is the *umpire*. I can't tell you how many times a first base coach has cried out for a pulled foot when I'm 100% certain that the foot was held until the split-second *after* the ball was caught.

If you think he's off by a blade of grass or three, he's on.

3 in 25 years may be an exaggeration. I do know that it's exactly 3 since the year 2001. And I'll probably work 120 games this year and work 80-120 every year (I'm in the north, where 200 games just isn't possible even if I wanted to work that many). Everything before 2001 is a bit fuzzy.

Pulled foot after the fact is totally different animal. That is timing and there is NEVER a need to get help on that because you SAW the foot come off, you just say it came off after the out. Nothing PU can do on that to help you.

A blade of grass or three is probably too close for even PU to see. If there is foot movement and the foot is straddling bag not on top of it I think there are far more instances when as the BU, unless you are in "A", will not be able to see it as well as the PU from down the line. And 2-3 inches is significant enough in my opinion for the runner to be safe.

I also think that field condition has a lot to do with this as well. I've worked at many fields where the conditions around first base are so uneven and dusty that I'm not able to get nearly as good a look as I can if it were a well manicured field.

[UmpJM]

Scott,

You need to focus more on umpiring and less on Physics.

You've got two very knowledgeable and experienced umpires graciously trying to teach you something and all you are doing is arguing with them in defense of an indefensible position. You're preventing yourself from understanding what they're telling you because you're more interested in defending your position that learning something.

At least that's how it comes across to me.

Besides, if you were to read Einstein's Special theory of relativity or understood the first thing about Heisenberg's uncertainty principle you would know that your physics position is as indefensible as you umpiring position.

They are right and you are wrong. Just sayin'.

Apologize for the interruption, we will now return our viewers to their regularly scheduled programming.

JM

[RichMSN]

Scott,

Going for help is not only not required, it's generally not a good idea - which is probably why Rich has only done it 3 times in 25 years. (this may be an exaggeration, but I understand hsi point)

Unless you feel you need help, your best response to this request is: "I don't need help, coach." or something similar like, "I had a good view." or "I saw it plainly.", etc...

Going for help every time you're asked makes you look weak (not cooperative, which is what I first thought, too) and sets a bad precedent not only for the rest of the game, but for those teams going forward.

Again, if you're not sure, by all means go ask your partner. But, if you're certain and you're only going for help to appease the coach, I wouldn't.

I understand that going for help every time can make you look weak. When I have seen the play clearly I've told many coaches that I don't need help I saw it clearly. But when we are talking about the foot being off the bag by a few inches I'm smart enough to know that the first base coach quite possibly has a better view of that potential space between the bag and foot than I do from "C" (or wherever I moved to after starting in "C"). I'm not about to tell him that I saw it if it's not humanly possible to do so.

Stop thinking it's not humanly possible to do so. If you're saying that, then you simply are moving to the wrong angle or are not moving quickly or far enough to get the right look.

We work 2-man in college games here. I've never had a partner ask me for help from the C position and I've never asked myself in a college game. It's not because we're guessing out there, either.

I didn't say it's NEVER humanly possible to do so. I said there are situations where it's not humanly possible. And those situations happen more like 3 times per year than 3 times every 25 years.

Actually, they don't if you know where you're supposed to go and hustle to get there and get set. Properly working the bases is harder work than working the plate.

I did ask for help on a tag on a push bunt this season. I'm more than willing to get help when *I* feel like I could use some. But that's the criteria. It doesn't matter in the least bit what the coaches and managers think -- if I feel I really need it, I'll get it, when appropriate.

And that push bunt was the 3rd time since 2001, BTW. The other two times were at the MSBL World Series in Phoenix in 2001 when F4 ran in front of me and blocked my view of the play at first and in 2007 when I got lazy and didn't work a ground ball back to the pitcher as hard as I should have.

[umpire_scott]

I'm being told on one thread to ALWAYS go for help when asked on the check swing, even if I'm sure, and no matter what position the BU is in; and to almost NEVER go for help on a pulled foot. So on which one am I enabling and which one am I not?

Scott,

Check swings are a completely different animal than everything else you might need to get help on. Follow both pieces of advice.

The only other thing I'll say is that I wouldn't base my decision on whether or not to go for help (on something like a pulled foot) on what I think one of the coaches may or may not have seen, nor whether or not I think they had a better view than I did.

Go for help only when you feel you may have missed something and are correctly asked by the manager to do so.

I agree that check swings are completely different. But another poster said "may I suggest that if you or your partners are continually asking for help upon request from coaches when you/they are certain that it's not a swing, you're not appeasing them, you're enabling them." That is what I was responding to.

[Dragon29]

Absolutely agree. And that little space between foot and bag I cannot see. I know that ahead of time. If the first baseman's foot is on top of the bag I can see whether he pulled his foot or not. Generally no need to get help. If the coach says "his foot was slightly in front of the the inside of the bag and not in contact" I'm going to PU for help. This is not rocket or umpiring science here. This is common sense. I've coached and I've umpired. Most baseball people that I talk to are well versed on the fact that sometimes the foot of the first baseman can be not in contact with the base and a BU from the middle will not be able to see this. It's not about being in a good position or angle. It's about physics. The ONLY angles that the entire inside of the foot can be seen as well as the entire inside of the bag are from the baseline or overhead. First base coach is close enough to get that overhead angle, and PU has the baseline angle. "B" or "C" or any variation based on movement have neither angle. Really arguing this point is completely irrational. It's not really debatable. If a coach at first moved enough to get a good overhead or baseline view from behind and clearly saw the space, and then you tell him that you saw it fine (when he knows you can't), and then you refuse to get help, how does that make you look? I've coached and I can tell you what I would think of you.

OK - We're actually agreeing in principle; the thing we disagree on is frequency &/or need and there's no way I'm going to convince you, nor do I feel the need to.

You asked for help; we gave it - do what you will

(&, I really don't care too much what coaches think of me because it's usually based on how their team did, not how I did)

Now I'm done.