Bunt?

[mazzamouth]

Ok we had a little discussion a the International Camp with some of us and Phil Cuzzi..

batter is squaring to bunt, has the bat level to the plate ( kind of like the pic i put in..)

If the batter does not move the bat in any way holds it very still and the ball passes say lower or higher than the bat ( but not in the strike zone). Should it be called a strike cause he went?..

a few of us said the batter must make an attempt to hit or bunt the ball.. just merely holding the bat out there is not an attempt.

OBR rule ..

A BUNT is a batted ball not swung at, but intentionally met with the bat and tapped

slowly within the infield.

so tell me what you think... does the batter have to make an attempt to bunt/hit the ball... or does him holding it out there in front of the plate make it an attempt.. there was about 20 of us umpires ans we were 50/50 on this one..LOOL

[mstaylor]

In baseball the interp is holding it motionless is not an attempt. Softball is different or at least some codes are.

[JaxRolo]

I would say that the chances of a batter holding that bat perfectly still are nil. Any movement however slight can be considered an attempt.

99.9% chance I got a strike.

[mazzamouth]

I would say that the chances of a batter holding that bat perfectly still are nil. Any movement however slight can be considered an attempt.

99.9% chance I got a strike.

I think he needs to make a legitimate attempt to bunt, just a slight movement to me ( of course i need to see the movement) could not be a attempt.

[Rich Ives]

I would say that the chances of a batter holding that bat perfectly still are nil. Any movement however slight can be considered an attempt.

99.9% chance I got a strike.

You'd are misunderstanding the requirement. There has to be a deliberate attempt to contact the ball.

2.00 A BUNT is a batted ball not swung at, but intentionally met with the bat and tapped slowly within the infield.

2.00 A STRIKE is a legal pitch when so called by the umpire, which—

(a) Is struck at by the batter and is missed;

[Astrosdawg07]

He's gotta make an attempt to actually bunt the ball for me to call it a strike! This is just another example of rules the general public doesn't know or understand!

[mstaylor]

Agreed, many times guys will go down or up to the ball and then pull it back. That will likely draw a strike call. If he just leaves it out there or pulls back he is fine.

[jnazz]

I agree with the inerpretations (ie. no attempt at the pitch -- no strike), but the part of the situation that always gets me is that if you leave your bat motionless and the pitched ball hits the bat it's in play, foul, etc. But if you leave your bat motionless and the pitch misses your bat, it's a ball. It took me awhile to wrap my head around it. It never seemed right to me, but I know the rules are the rules and this is the accepted interpretation.

[Umpire in Chief]

I have presenting the bunt is nothing until he raises or lowers the barrel, jabs at the ball or anything showing an attempt to strike the ball.

I usually get in a discussion with a coach 1-2 times a year about this.

[Rich Ives]

I agree with the inerpretations (ie. no attempt at the pitch -- no strike), but the part of the situation that always gets me is that if you leave your bat motionless and the pitched ball hits the bat it's in play, foul, etc. But if you leave your bat motionless and the pitch misses your bat, it's a ball. .

That's because it became a batted ball. If you dick/bail on a pitch and it hits the bat it's a batted ball too. Different thing.

And if you leave th4e bat motionless you call ball/strik based on the pitch location - it's not an automatic either one.

Why doesn't it make sense? If you stand in a normal stance and don't offer it's not a swining strike. Why shoul just standing in a bunt stance be different?

[JaxRolo]

You'd are misunderstanding the requirement. There has to be a deliberate attempt to contact the ball.

2.00 A BUNT is a batted ball not swung at, but intentionally met with the bat and tapped slowly within the infield.

2.00 A STRIKE is a legal pitch when so called by the umpire, which—

(a) Is struck at by the batter and is missed;

I understand the requirement but it is just what our association teaches. If the bat moves ever so slightly how do you know it wasn't an attempt? So we got a strike.

Granted, how often does this happen? Very rarely if at all. May have called it once in the last year.

[mazzamouth]

I like this.. At the Camp, we got into the same discussion.. and about half said call it a strike if it sits out there, and the other said unless he makes a attempt.. it was fun, and Phil Cuzzi was right there with us asking us what we thought...LOL

[JaxRolo]

I like this.. At the Camp, we got into the same discussion.. and about half said call it a strike if it sits out there, and the other said unless he makes a attempt.. it was fun, and Phil Cuzzi was right there with us asking us what we thought...LOL

What did Phil Cuzzi say about it?

[Mr Umpire]

For me, holding it out there is not a strike. He has to attempt to hit the ball.

[JaxRolo]

For me, holding it out there is not a strike. He has to attempt to hit the ball.

How do you know that by holding it out there he wasn't attempting to hit the ball and missed it.

[Mike Prince]

How do you know that by holding it out there he wasn't attempting to hit the ball and missed it.

That seems somewhat obvious on a bunt to me, if the bat is just stuck out there the batter may INTEND (or hope) to hit it but he is not attempting to hit it if he makes no effort to bring the bat to the ball.

You have to call what you actually see (which in this case is the position of the pitch for a ball/strike call and any movement of the bat towards the ball to get a "swinging" strike), not what you think the batter is thinking when he lays the bat out there.

[Mr Umpire]

How do you know that by holding it out there he wasn't attempting to hit the ball and missed it.

Judgment.

[JaxRolo]

That seems somewhat obvious on a bunt to me, if the bat is just stuck out there the batter may INTEND (or hope) to hit it but he is not attempting to hit it if he makes no effort to bring the bat to the ball.

You have to call what you actually see

(which in this case is the position of the pitch for a ball/strike call and any movement of the bat towards the ball to get a "swinging" strike), not what you think the batter is thinking when he lays the bat out there.

So intent to hit and attempt to hit are different? They sound the same to me.

Like I said it has only happened maybe one time to me so I am not to concerned about it.

I still say if you have the bat out there I got a strike so they better pull it back if they don't want a strike called.

I call what I see and I see a Strike.

Edited October 25, 2010 by JaxRolo

[JaxRolo]

Judgment.

Exactly and in my Judgement leaving the bat out there is an attempt to hit the ball.

I could be wrong but that is what they teach us.

I will bring this up at the Southern Umpire Camp in Feb.

[JaxRolo]

I like this.. At the Camp, we got into the same discussion.. and about half said call it a strike if it sits out there, and the other said unless he makes a attempt.. it was fun, and Phil Cuzzi was right there with us asking us what we thought...LOL

I seem to be outnumbered 100-1 on here! :D

[Rich Ives]

How do you know that by holding it out there he wasn't attempting to hit the ball and missed it.

It's REALLY OBVIOUS when he makes an attempt.

[mazzamouth]

Exactly and in my Judgement leaving the bat out there is an attempt to hit the ball.

I could be wrong but that is what they teach us.

I will bring this up at the Southern Umpire Camp in Feb.

we meant to bring it up, but forgot as it was the last day...

one of the Instructors said it should be called a strike if he leaves it out there, unless the pitch was way high or way low.

[JaxRolo]

It's REALLY OBVIOUS when he makes an attempt.

Exactly! To me it is really obvious that leaving the bat out there it means an attempt. If you don't want a strike called then pull it back.

[JaxRolo]

we meant to bring it up, but forgot as it was the last day...

one of the Instructors said it should be called a strike if he leaves it out there, unless the pitch was way high or way low.

Thats the way I see it. I just can't believe so far I am the only one on here that thinks its a strike. Maybe the others are afraid to speak up. :D

[Mike Prince]

Thats the way I see it. I just can't believe so far I am the only one on here that thinks its a strike. Maybe the others are afraid to speak up.

I made a ball call on a very similar scenario last fall in 11/12 league. Batter gets to plate and just holds his bat over the plate, pitch comes in off the plate and the bat did not move at all, the batter was like a statue. The explanation is simple, the batter did not offer at the pitch.

Think about it, if he had started his swing and in your judgment he legally checked his swing on a non-strike but his bat ended up over the plate, would you say he went and call the strike? The end result of that is almost identical to what is being discussed here, and he clearly was prepared to offer at the pitch in that scenario as he started a swing.

I don't know about anyone else, but in my mind the check swing is often harder to call than the scenario presented in this thread. JaxRolo, if it makes you feel any better most of the guys in my association would get the strike. I am in the minority with them whenever this discussion comes up.