Obstruction, Missed Third and scored

[retleftolc]

Im a coach and like understanding all the rules and situations I can. Be gentle, please. This took place in a PONY Mustang League.

Im coaching third. Runner coming from second is obstructed just before he gets to third. He attempts to reach the base through the defenders legs, but comes up short. He proceeds home and the umpires discuss briefly after the play, and the game proceeds. Obstruction was called by the umpire. I talked to the umpire after the inning and he said that if the opposing coach had appealed the runner would have been called out.

Does the fact that the obstruction took place before the act of missing the base make a difference? We didnt argue about it at all, just discussed the rule in general. This is a fall league and is very relaxed so the boys and coaches can get used to kids pitch.

ret

[1dumbquestion]

Ret, not real clear on the play at hand but... if there was a play being made on R2 at the time of obs then the play would be stopped and the ump would place R2 where he believes he would have ended up without the obs. if there was not a play being made then play would continue while the umpire "protects" the runner as far as he thinks he would have made it without the obs (could be 3rd or home). the only way the D could get an out on appeal would be if the runner was obs before reaching 3rd and then was awarded home but never touched 3rd on his way. just because you are awarded bases does not mean you don't have to run the bases properly. 1

[retleftolc]

I believe it would be a B obstruction. There was no play on him. Runner missed third and proceeded home on his own. So R2 would be out on appeal for missing 3B?

Ret

[1dumbquestion]

I believe it would be a B obstruction. There was no play on him. Runner missed third and proceeded home on his own. So R2 would be out on appeal for missing 3B?

Ret

yes, if R2 misses 3rd with or without a stopage of play or a base award he is at risk of being put out on proper appeal.

[jnazz]

yes, if R2 misses 3rd with or without a stopage of play or a base award he is at risk of being put out on proper appeal.

+1

If this wasn't true, the runner on second (advancing to third) could make a bee-line to home as soon as the obstruction occured. Making him touch prevents this.

[Rich Ives]

The generally accepted interpretation is that the runner must still touch unless the obstruction clearly prevents him from doing so. Judgement on the "prevents".

[mstaylor]

I'm with Richard on this one, if the obstruction causes the miss then no out on the appeal. If the miss had nothing to with the obstruction then he would be out on the appeal.

[retleftolc]

F6 was standing in front of the base and R2 tried to put his foot through the legs of F6 to reach the base. He couldn't, but thought he did. My thoughts were that if the obstruction caused the miss it should not be and out. If this is the case, would you give R2 3B or Home?

ret

[UmpTTS43]

F6 was standing in front of the base and R2 tried to put his foot through the legs of F6 to reach the base. He couldn't, but thought he did. My thoughts were that if the obstruction caused the miss it should not be and out. If this is the case, would you give R2 3B or Home?

ret

Too many variables to consider as to where the runner would be protected to. In your above quoted sitch, I would not uphold an appeal for the missed base due to the obstruction causing said miss. As far as protecting the runner, it depends on where the ball is and how close a subsequent play on the runner would be.

Example: In your sitch, runner is protected to at least 3rd. If he tries for home and is out on a close play, I might, and probably would, protect him to home. If however, your runner is out at home by, say 10 feet, I would not protect him at home. It comes down to how much the runner was actually hindered and how close the play is.

It all comes down to the judgement of the umpire. Hope this helps.

[Umpire in Chief]

At the Mustang level I've seen too many times where the third baseman is just standing on the bag and sometimes blocking access. Rich and Mike have it right Type 2 obstruction, ignore the missed base.

[mstaylor]

I always explain an obstruction award as a time/distance equation. The amount that he gets throw out by and the time/distance that he is was delayed by determines if I am overturning the out.

A good example was some years back Tijada got obstructed going around third. U3 announced the obstruction and let the play go. Miquel heard the umpire and slowed down almost to a walk. He got hosed at the plate but because he didn't continue to try to advance they let the out stand.

[stl_ump]

I'm thinking a runner is ALWAYS responsible for touching a base regardless as to the reason for missing it.

See 7.05

...If a runner is forced to return to a base after a catch, he must retouch his original base even though, because of some ground rule or other rule, he is awarded additional bases...

[Rich Ives]

I'm thinking a runner is ALWAYS responsible for touching a base regardless as to the reason for missing it.

See 7.05

...If a runner is forced to return to a base after a catch, he must retouch his original base even though, because of some ground rule or other rule, he is awarded additional bases...

What base is he returning to after a catch in the play at hand? This is just saying that when a runner has to re-touch he has to run the bases in reverse order to get there - and must retouch no matter what the final outcome.

[th3]

i had a play last year where a runner coming to 3rd took an extra wide turn to go around a fielder (no play being made - softball) and ran into the coach..i called coaches interference and general consesnsus was that i should not have

[JaxRolo]

i had a play last year where a runner coming to 3rd took an extra wide turn to go around a fielder (no play being made - softball) and ran into the coach..i called coaches interference and general consesnsus was that i should not have

Coaches Interference on his own runner?

[Rich Ives]

Coaches Interference on his own runner?

DOH! Who else?

Coach assistance of a runer is in the interference rule.

[JaxRolo]

DOH! Who else?

Coach assistance of a runer is in the interference rule.

He didn't make it sound like an assist.

[Rich Ives]

He didn't make it sound like an assist.

Sorry - to me it seemed the way you posed the queston made it seem like you wondered how a coach could interfere with his own runner.

[mstaylor]

The way I read it was there was a collision so he called coach's interference. His partner thought he shouldn't have called it because the obstruction caused him to go wide of the base instead of where he was supposed to be.

[Stan W.]

I always explain an obstruction award as a time/distance equation. The amount that he gets throw out by and the time/distance that he is was delayed by determines if I am overturning the out.

A good example was some years back Tijada got obstructed going around third. U3 announced the obstruction and let the play go. Miquel heard the umpire and slowed down almost to a walk. He got hosed at the plate but because he didn't continue to try to advance they let the out stand.

Since I know that Mike is a trainer of young umpires I nominated this post.....when offering explanations of rules it is imperative that you deliver the thoughts clearly and provide a student with a interpretaion that they can latch on to.....

this thought does that for me............and of course I will steal it for my class notes for this winters class

[mstaylor]

Thanks Stan, I appreciate the kind words.

[Stan W.]

Thanks Stan, I appreciate the kind words.

mike,

if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery then call me guilty....I'm always looking for a presentation or "turn of phrase" to make my rules class more effective...

thanks for providing this one.!!.......

Stan

[mstaylor]

That's like a clinic years ago I asked about the pop-up behind first, who's ball is it to call. The instructor, AAA umpire, says pop-up means pivot. That little phrase has stuck in my head for years.