Pitcher calles pitches to catcher.

[Umpire in Chief]

Today I had 3 14U AAU games in the 2nd game the pitcher was shaking off everything from the catcher. The batter ended up calling time. He steps back in and the pitcher continues to shake off the catcher. The pitcher then steps off and holds down three fingers.

The next inning a similar thing happened. I'd never seen that before. My partner told me he was waiting for the catcher to shake off the pitcher.

[Dragon29]

Two years ago, I'm watching (not umpiring) my son play in LL Majors against the team leading the division.

My son's @ the plate; the opposing Mgr signals a pitch to F1 (his son; one of their better pitchers) who shakes him off. He pitches and my son hits his first Majors homer!

Fast forward a couple of innings - again my son is hitting; same F1. The opposing Mgr. signals the same pitch and is again shaken off by his son.

He requests time - which is granted - walks out to the mound an in a purposefully loud whisper says, for all to hear, "<Son>, don't throw him another fastball - he hit the last one out. Throw him a curve." and walks back to the dugout. People in the stands are either chuckling or aghast.

F1 throws a curve; my son doubles in a run.

My sons' team lost the game, but at least there was some comedy along the way!

[dash_riprock]

I cringe when I see 12 year-olds throw curveballs.

[Umpire in Chief]

I cringe when I see 12 year-olds throw curveballs.

I often get the 12 y/o catchers who like to talk to me. This one catcher kept asking me, "Blue, did you see that curve?" every time the kid threw a "curve." These pitches had virtually no movement and I could barely tell if they were curving, but would give a reassuring "Yup" to the kid.

[Dragon29]

I cringe when I see 12 year-olds throw curveballs.

I used to, but everything I've found (both from LL & other sources) indicates that there is no actual evidence that doing so hurts young arms. You know LL - if there was any evidence support it, they would ban it in a heartbeat (OK - a season)

The last time I looked into it, I found that all available 'evidence' to support the theory that throwing pitches with movement at a very young age is bad for the kids is colloquial hearsay. Of course, I'm no doctor and LL continues to study it.

More to the point, UIC is right - most kids who throw a 'curve' at that age are just holding the ball the way they were shown and getting no movement at all. This particular F1 could actually throw one and had a decent change-up as well.

[jjb]

I've often found that, at the 12-year old level, the most effective pitchers are those that can throw a fastball, and a not-so-fastball for strikes.

[Umpire in Chief]

I used to, but everything I've found (both from LL & other sources) indicates that there is no actual evidence that doing so hurts young arms. You know LL - if there was any evidence support it, they would ban it in a heartbeat (OK - a season)

I think the danger or injuries come from not throwing a curve correctly. I'm no pitcher so cannot explain the mechanics of how to throw a curve properly, but using off beat mechanics to get the rotation needed for a curve is probably where the injuries come from.

[BrianC14]

I think the danger or injuries come from not throwing a curve correctly. I'm no pitcher so cannot explain the mechanics of how to throw a curve properly, but using off beat mechanics to get the rotation needed for a curve is probably where the injuries come from.

Confucius say, "Boy who throw curve ball at 12, will play first base by 15."

:cheers:

[jjb]

I can't tell you the number of times I've called a 12-year old with a "curve ball", and thought "I hope he can play soccer".

[DonInKansas]

When I hear about 12 year olds throwing "curves", I immediately shake my head.

Give a 12 year old with a decent fastball a changeup and he'll mow through hitters without risking his arm.

[Umpire in Chief]

When I hear about 12 year olds throwing "curves", I immediately shake my head.

Give a 12 year old with a decent fastball a changeup and he'll mow through hitters without risking his arm.

Agreed.

[MCLEOD36]

It is horrible. In South Florida, the coaches have some kids throw curves at 10. It just drives me crazy, these are the same buggers yelling at some small kid going I will replace you with the next one that can throw a better curve. In talking to the older guys, college etc., it is pretty much unanimous, fast ball and change ups with location rule till late HS.

[Umpire in Chief]

In talking to the older guys, college etc., it is pretty much unanimous, fast ball and change ups with location rule till late HS.

There was this pitcher who I called one of his games, and I was thinking this was the next Greg Maddux. Fastballs & change ups of varying speeds and "good" location. The second time the other teams big bat came up he was having trouble getting the timing I think as he fouled quite a few pitches off. The pitcher then threw his first curve of the game, a good one too, and made a good batter look bad. The batter was ticked at himself and went back to the dugout. From then on the other team was always yelling at their batter, "Watch the curve." He maybe threw one or two more the entire 7 innings.

Driving home I remember thinking about how he picked the perfect times to throw it and how the fear the other team had for it gave him such an advantage. While the game was otherwise unnotable, and I've seen better pitchers since, but that was the best pitching I'd seen in terms of pitch selection and a pitcher who really varied his speeds well.

Long story short I fully agree

[blue32]

Curt Schilling was asked once, what is the best advice he would give to a kids that pitch. He said learn to throw a change up and use it. He said what separates good pitchers from great pitchers is being able to change speeds. He was also against youngsters throwing curves.

[blindumpire99]

I remember the signals from the old Backyard/Cow Pasture League days:

"1's a fastball, 2's a curveball, 3's a knuckle, 4's a changeup and 5's a slowball!":home:

Don't ask me how or what a 'slowball' is or how you grip it..I always shook off the catcher when he signaled it..:shrug:

[Old Nr 24]

As one who began his youth baseball experience in the 50s and was drafted as a pitcher simply because I was one of the few guys who could actually consistently throw the ball where I intended, I must agree with the "no curves" rule for youngsters. I know it's "cool" to make the hitter look bad when you throw a good one, I know the coaches love them, and I know a lot of people will tell you a kid will never go anywhere unless he learns the breaking ball early, take it from one who could not lift his right arm to comb his hair if he had any left, it ain't worth it!

I had good instruction in mechanics and grip, body movement and positioning, and I was an eager student, as most young kids are, but the pains began in high school, and that's when I knew my future would not be in baseball. I moved back to my infield position at third base only to find one, maybe two good hard throws where I had to "show off" the arm was all there was, and I would probably be in the dugout not long after that second one.

Oh no, fellas, it's not worth it, especially when there are so many other ways to teach a young pitcher to throw pitches that move...a pure changeup, a cutter, anything but that dreaded Yellow Hammer!