What the ............

[Thunderheads]

Ok guys ..this is actually funny .....

Please, give me YOUR rundown on this! (no pun)

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10591941

[Umpire in Chief]

Unfortunately I have to say Darling missed the call.

2 runners on the base at the same time only the trailing runner is out when tagged. It is up to the players to know this and it appeared one of the the A's did.

As for calling Maier out for being out of the basepath, back to youth rec there is no basepath until a play is being made on the runner. Once they attempted to make the play on Maier he went directly home. So the call was missed.

I dont understand why the A's coach is upset he got the DP out of it?

On the positive side Hohn made a good call. No signal when they initially tagged Maier, then pointed to and called the trail runner out when making the call.

[Thunderheads]

Unfortunately I have to say Darling missed the call.

2 runners on the base at the same time only the trailing runner is out when tagged. It is up to the players to know this and it appeared one of the the A's did.

As for calling Maier out for being out of the basepath, back to youth rec there is no basepath until a play is being made on the runner. Once they attempted to make the play on Maier he went directly home. So the call was missed.

I dont understand why the A's coach is upset he got the DP out of it?

On the positive side Hohn made a good call. No signal when they initially tagged Maier, then pointed to and called the trail runner out when making the call.

Warren, agreed, ...but wasn't Maier tagged?? Look carefully...the video doesn't capture the best angle, but I tried to catch it ....look ...the tag hasn't been applied yet, but it's going to any second in the picture ....he's actually tagged and he's off the bag (pic doesn't show it)...but you can follow it....

[Mr Umpire]

Bad call by Darling. No play, no base line. And, once there was a play, he headed directly to HP.

I am wondering the same thing about the EJ. I can only guess that a call was reversed and one of the outs was changed. Otherwise, he got ejected for no reason.

[Mr Umpire]

Warren, agreed, ...but wasn't Maier tagged?? Look carefully...the video doesn't capture the best angle, but I tried to catch it ....look ...the tag hasn't been applied yet, but it's going to any second in the picture ....he's actually tagged and he's off the bag (pic doesn't show it)...but you can follow it....

I think the original call was that Maier was in contact with the base at the time of both tags. Right or wrong, I think that is the original call. So, he was technically safe at the time of the tag while the trail runner is out on the tag. Hohn clearly points at the trail runner and signals out.

I think Hohn got it right and Darling got it wrong.

[Thunderheads]

I think the original call was that Maier was in contact with the base at the time of both tags. Right or wrong, I think that is the original call. So, he was technically safe at the time of the tag while the trail runner is out on the tag. Hohn clearly points at the trail runner and signals out.

I think Hohn got it right and Darling got it wrong.

Agreed, ...IF HOHN ruled they were both on the bag at the time of the tag, then only Betancourt is out, correct.

BUT .... if when the tag on Maier was made, he was OFF the bag, HE WOULD in fact be out (doesn't own 3rd anymore) and Betancourt is safe on 3rd.

So, the call should be: if Hohn ruled both were on the bag at 3rd when the tag was made, Betancourt is out, and Maier should have been SAFE at home then!!

NUTS!! :HS

[BrianC14]

Darling clearly said/signaled/did something as R3 was headed back to 3rd base.... for whatever, reason, it looks as though he (R3) was called out... .watch R2 as he's standing on the base, he's waving off R3's attempt to come back, as though he's saying "Forget it, forget it, they called you out", or something like that.... THAT'S where I think the poking of the pooch began on this play. Watch Darling's actions at about 0:10... for whatever reason, R3 thinks he's out (long before any tag attempt is made at the bag).

And whatever you do, DON'T listen to the announcers on this... criminy...

Edited August 4, 2010 by BrianC14

[Umpire in Chief]

And whatever you do, DON'T listen to the announcers on this... criminy...

No problem, I've got no speakers at work. ;)

[kcfan102]

Darling clearly said/signaled/did something as R3 was headed back to 3rd base.... for whatever, reason, it looks as though he (R3) was called out... .watch R2 as he's standing on the base, he's waving off R3's attempt to come back, as though he's saying "Forget it, forget it, they called you out", or something like that.... THAT'S where I think the poking of the pooch began on this play. Watch Darling's actions at about 0:10... for whatever reason, R3 thinks he's out (long before any tag attempt is made at the bag).

And whatever you do, DON'T listen to the announcers on this... criminy...

The call Darling makes that we can see is that safe sign, signaling that there is no obstruction on R3.

They changed the call. They ruled that Betencourt was safe at third because Maier was tagged off the base so you don't have an instance where two runners at one base. That's what Geren was tossed, he was upset that there was no double play.

So R1 goes to third, BR goes to second with R3 out 2-5-1.

I think Darling was the one that saw that Maier was off third base when the tag was applied and when they got together, they changed it.

After looking at the video and everything I think they got it right.

**Never mind the whole "out of the baseline bit"

[Thunderheads]

The call Darling makes that we can see is that safe sign, signaling that there is no obstruction on R3.

They changed the call. They ruled that Betencourt was safe at third because Maier was tagged off the base so you don't have an instance where two runners at one base. That's what Geren was tossed, he was upset that there was no double play.

So R1 goes to third, BR goes to second with R3 out 2-5-1.

I think Darling was the one that saw that Maier was off third base when the tag was applied and when they got together, they changed it.

After looking at the video and everything I think they got it right.

**Never mind the whole "out of the baseline bit"

THAT is the picture I was trying to capture from the video! HE WAS OFF< .....I thought so, but you never had a great angle!

[Umpire in Chief]

Now it all makes more sense.

[Moriarty_45]

Here is what I see. Betancourt should be out when he passes Maier, even though Maier is the one actually doing the passing. Originally I thought that was what Hohn was pointing at, now I realize he points to the tag. Maier was tagged off the base so out there, but it wasnt called.

Maier looks like he retouches 3rd so he missed 3rd upon scoring. No tag attempt on Maiers so he shoudnt been called for out of baseline, but if ruled safe he could have been out on appeal at third.

I think 2 outs were there, but not the way Geren wanted them.

I wonder what the crew's post game conversation went like??

Edited August 4, 2010 by moriarty_43

[Mr Umpire]

Now it all makes more sense.

Now it does. Without good commentating or any explanation, it looks like a botched call. Now, with only explanation, still not good commentating, it appears what the ruling was and was correct.

However, it appears Darling made a call which wasn't his. He took what was Hohn's call and made it his. Overruling Hohn. This is not something which needs to be practiced in amateur baseball. The problem is a MLB umpire did it. Now, the hacks in the amateur levels will think it is OK for them to do it.

Don't do it.

Edited August 4, 2010 by Mr Umpire

[BrianC14]

Now it all makes more sense.

But who called the 'out' on Meier? Hohn points right at Betancourt and signals 'out'. Even the still pic shows Hohn looking down at the base - there's no way he sees that tag (and Betancourt would have been in the way from that angle, anyway).

I think that's the reason that Darling (who clearly think that Meier has not been put out) calls him (erroneously, BTW) out for being out of the baseline. No wonder Geren wanted two outs!

Edited August 4, 2010 by BrianC14

[Thunderheads]

But who called the 'out' on Meier? Hohn points right at Betancourt and signals 'out'. Even the still pic shows Hohn looking down at the base - there's no way he sees that tag (and Betancourt would have been in the way from that angle, anyway).

Agreed Brian. The still shot shows 2 things: 1) [think McClelland last fall] ...he's too close and at a weird angle, and, 2) he's ASSUMING that Maier is just going to stand on 3rd with Betancourt, which he doesn't.

He sees both sets of feet touch briefly, ...and by the time he looks up ONLY SEES the tag on Betancourt, ...boom, out ....

What a mess! :D

[kcfan102]

But who called the 'out' on Meier? Hohn points right at Betancourt and signals 'out'. Even the still pic shows Hohn looking down at the base - there's no way he sees that tag (and Betancourt would have been in the way from that angle, anyway).

I think that's the reason that Darling (who clearly think that Meier has not been put out) calls him (erroneously, BTW) out for being out of the baseline. No wonder Geren wanted two outs!

My guess is that Hohn had both players on the base at the time of the tag. That's why he called Betencourt out.

When the umpires got together and talked about it. Somebody (my guess is Darling) must have said that he had Maier off the bag at the time of the tag.

[Thunderheads]

My guess is that Hohn had both players on the base at the time of the tag. That's why he called Betencourt out.

When the umpires got together and talked about it. Somebody (my guess is Darling) must have said that he had Maier off the bag at the time of the tag.

And maybe that's the confusion also, ...maybe , when Darling calls Maier out, he's actually NOT saying he was out of the baseline, but rather, OFF the bag when the tag was made and waiting for the end of the play in case he was going to leave the field of play?? The announcers are saying that Darling is saying he's WAY OUT OF THE BASELINE ....but, is he?? Is that what he was really saying ??

Damn announcers, making it worse ! :D

[BrianC14]

My guess is that Hohn had both players on the base at the time of the tag. That's why he called Betencourt out.

When the umpires got together and talked about it. Somebody (my guess is Darling) must have said that he had Maier off the bag at the time of the tag.

No way he can see that! Hell, Hohn didn't even see it! But a big-time screw up however it gets interpreted. I'm betting that the conversation started off with, "Oh, crap - what the *&^% did we just do here?!?"

[Thunderheads]

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100804&content_id=12999768&vkey=news_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak

nothing comes up...try this

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100804&content_id=12999768&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc

Edited August 4, 2010 by Thunderheads

[BrianC14]

nothing comes up...try this

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100804&content_id=12999768&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc

"They tagged [Maier] on the bag, and when they went to tag Betancourt, now Maier has stepped off the bag and he has abandoned his effort, which now legalized Betancourt," Darling explained by way of rule 7.08 after the game. "There are not two people on the base when they tag Betancourt. Maier is out for abandoning his effort."

Wow. The explanation is worse than the mechanics of it all.

If that's the case, why does Darling signal that Maier was out of the baseline?

Geren's argument is doubly stupid.

I think the only way they could have fixed this - correctly - would be to uphold the "out" call on Betancourt - but the out against Betancourt is for passing the preceding runner (remember, Maeir is not out when he makes that move toward second base).

So there's one out.

Then Maier breaks for home, at which time the attempt to make a play on him... and fail to tag him... and he touches the plate. Calling him out for being out of baseline - no way. Calling him out for abandonment? Also - no way.

I understand that Maier was tagged when he was off the base - toward second base - but at that instant, that's when only one of two things can happen:

a) either Betancourt is out for passing, or Maier is out on the tag... but Hohn apparently doesn't see that tag, so the only real 'fix' is for Betancourt to be out for passing Maier.

Edited August 4, 2010 by BrianC14

[Mr Umpire]

Using 7.08 to call an out for this is absolutely horrible. Bad call then as originally stated. Darling 'screwed the pooch' on this one.

Since they didn't see the tag of Maier while he was off the base and Hohn has the tag of Betancourt while Maier is touching the base, then Betancourt should have been out since he is the trail runner and was tagged while Maier was on the base (what Hohn saw) and Maier should have scored. Still only 1 out on the play.

Where in the he** did this come from? It is on the left side of the article.

"Runner believing he is called out on a tag at first or third base starts for the dugout and progresses a reasonable distance still indicating by his actions that he is out, shall be declared out for abandoning the bases."

-- Comment portion of rule 7.08 (a)

Who pulled that out of their a$$?

Edited August 5, 2010 by Mr Umpire

[UmpTTS43]

After watching the replay the first time, my impression was that Darling did call the runner out for abandonment. Runner obviously abandoned thinking he was out. When he tried to score, Darling used a mechanic, and probably verbalized it as well. I see nothing wrong with the way he did it.

[yawetag]

Welcome to the Big Leagues for "call up" umpire John Tumpane at first base for this series in Oakland. Good thing he was over at first.

Might have worked out better if he were U3 or PU, I'll bet.

[sasmallen]

Using 7.08 to call an out for this is absolutely horrible. Bad call then as originally stated. Darling 'screwed the pooch' on this one.

Since they didn't see the tag of Maier while he was off the base and Hohn has the tag of Betancourt while Maier is touching the base, then Betancourt should have been out since he is the trail runner and was tagged while Maier was on the base (what Hohn saw) and Maier should have scored. Still only 1 out on the play.

Where in the he** did this come from? It is on the left side of the article.

"Runner believing he is called out on a tag at first or third base starts for the dugout and progresses a reasonable distance still indicating by his actions that he is out, shall be declared out for abandoning the bases."

-- Comment portion of rule 7.08 (a)

Who pulled that out of their a$$?

If you are questioning the quote, it's taken word for word from pg. 121 of the 2010 Official Rules of Major League Baseball., 7.08(a), "PLAY"