Mattingly Situation

[Jboval]

Now maybe someone on here knows better than I, but when the coach tries to have a second Offensive Conference during the same batter, isn't it just a 'no, you can't do that', rather than a force to remove the pitcher? I would have thought the only thing they could have done was eject manager as a penalty.

[JaxRolo]

I believe 8.06 states that the manager and the pitcher are Removed from the game. It never mentions ejection.

[boyinr]

I believe that the penalty is that the manager is ejected on the spot and the that pitcher must pitch to the batter at bat and then he is removed.

MLB came out yesterday and explained the correct call. They did not get it right. Please see the below from the four letter network:

ESPN.com news services

Umpires in Tuesday's Dodgers-Giants game erred in forcing Jonathan Broxton from the game, a major league official told ESPN's Tim Kurkjian.

The official said the rule that requires a pitcher to leave the game after two mound visits should have been superseded by an adendum to the rule. Rule 8.06 says if two mound visits occur while the same batter is up, the umpires must eject the manager and the pitcher must face the batter. After the batter, the pitcher should be removed.

Rule 8.06( states: "A second trip to the same pitcher in the same inning will cause this pitcher's automatic removal from the game."

However, Rule 8.06 Comment says: "In a case where a manager has made his first trip to the mound and then returns the second time to the mound in the same inning with the same pitcher in the game and the same batter at bat, after being warned by the umpire that he cannot return to the mound, the manager shall be removed from the game and the pitcher required to pitch to the batter until he is retired or gets on base. After the batter is retired, or becomes a baserunner, then this pitcher must be removed from the game."

The mistake was discovered after the game in a rehash with league umpiring evaluators.

If the Dodgers had protested the game, there is a chance the protest would have been upheld and the game replayed. The Dodgers did not protest the game.

Mattingly, who was managing after Joe Torre and bench coach Bob Schaefer were ejected, made a second trip to the mound in the ninth inning with one out and the bases loaded. The Dodgers had a one-run lead.

Broxton left the game after Giants manager Bruce Bochy alerted plate umpire Adrian Johnson of the violation. Left-hander George Sherrill replaced Broxton and allowed a two-run double to Andres Torres to give the Giants the lead in a game they won, 7-5.

Edited July 22, 2010 by boyinr
added espn article

[ukce1861]

The pitcher should have stayed in the game until the batter was put out or reached base, then been removed from the game. Mattingly should've been ejected.

[yawetag]

I believe 8.06 states that the manager and the pitcher are Removed from the game. It never mentions ejection.

Jax, what's the difference between "removed" and "ejected"?

[Rich Ives]

Jax, what's the difference between "removed" and "ejected"?

The rules don't use them consistently but:

If you're ejected you have to leave the field and dugout and go to the clubhouse. No further participation in any manner, and cannot be on the bench.

If a pitcher is removed he can just go sit on the bench for the rest of the game and participate in any non-playing capacuity.

[Guest]

You guys only have it half right.

Yes, F1 should have been required to pitch to the batter then at-bat, and then be removed.

However, those calling for the ejection of Mattingly are out of line.

In the MLBUM, which I am going to paraphrase rather than quote, it only calls for the ejection of the manager / acting manager / whoever for violation of the two trip rule only if the umpire is first able to tell them "don't do that."

In other words, as this situation happened as quickly as it did, Adrian Johnson had no way to tell Mattingly he couldn't go back on the dirt. That is why there was no ejection.

[noumpere]

The rules don't use them consistently but:

If you're ejected you have to leave the field and dugout and go to the clubhouse. No further participation in any manner, and cannot be on the bench.

If a pitcher is removed he can just go sit on the bench for the rest of the game and participate in any non-playing capacuity.

So, how do you "remove" a manager (without an ejection)?

[noumpere]

You guys only have it half right.

Yes, F1 should have been required to pitch to the batter then at-bat, and then be removed.

However, those calling for the ejection of Mattingly are out of line.

In the MLBUM, which I am going to paraphrase rather than quote, it only calls for the ejection of the manager / acting manager / whoever for violation of the two trip rule only if the umpire is first able to tell them "don't do that."

In other words, as this situation happened as quickly as it did, Adrian Johnson had no way to tell Mattingly he couldn't go back on the dirt. That is why there was no ejection.

I agree, based on what I've read about the situation.

However, MLB apparently feels that the "no, no, no" comment was enough of a warning, based on what I read in the local fishwrap this morning.