lonley moment

[umped up]

This story is actually hilarious (now anyway) This took place last year in MSBL (Mens senior baseball league) and was doing the 18 and over team. Here's the Sitch. I'm in the "C" slot and a ground ball hit to F-6, I meandered and got straight lined with F-3 on a swipe tag. F-3 comes off the bag and swipes at the runner and I had no clue what the call was. There was two outs and immediately, I pointed to U-1 and said, "did he get the tag"? Here's where the s$%# hits the fan. He shrugged his shoulders and said, "I didn't see it". I'm all alone here because he had no interest in helping me. To gather my thoughts, I visited U-1 to discuss and the decision was all mine. I had no clue what to do here. What call do you make when no one seen the play? Ok, here's where it gets stupid on my part. I walked down the first base line towards the runner and the fielder as they are anxiously awaiting my call. I look at R-1 and said, "Ok, where going to put you on the honor system here, did he tag you"? He grinned at F-3, then composed himself and said "no". I could tell by his response that he was tagged. So I called him out. Wow! The jokes were starting and I deserved it. They were talking about my crystal ball, human lie detector, etc. A lot of it was in fun but nonetheless, a serious tone to all of it. I screwed that up badly. My worst situation yet and I'm sure many to come.

What is the proper way to handle this when neither of you saw the play? And by the way, my nitwit partner says that he was looking down to make sure R-3 touched home plate. Seriously? That play supersedes the important one at first?

[Umpire in Chief]

Tough situation.

Here are my thoughts.

1st make your call based on the best info you have, or even your best guess. You may even get lucky and make the call that the majority are expecting.

If not, call time and go to your partners, don't yell across to them.

And don't rely on on the players. Now out of curiosity I've asked a player a few innings later if appropriate I might ask the defensive player. I've found they are more likely to tell me if they made the play or not.

[umped up]

Thank you for the reply. I was taught (given U-1 is doing his job) to immediately point at him and ask. What you said though makes good sense. Even though in my heart I know he was out giving the circumstances, I handled it terrible. I look back now and laugh.

[Umpire in Chief]

My opinion is to be discrete in going to your partner, but make your call first. Then if you need walk over to him and have a quiet conversation with your partner where players and coaches cant hear.

[boyinr]

Your partner made his call correctly and because he couldn't make your call for you and you call him a nitwit? Hmmm.

U1 responsibly is the plate and touches at third. Bailing you out of poor positioning is secondary. Meandering isn't the the same as hustling or busting a$$.

[BT_Blue]

Your partner made his call correctly and because he couldn't make your call for you and you call him a nitwit? Hmmm.

U1 responsibly is the plate and touches at third. Bailing you out of poor positioning is secondary. Meandering isn't the the same as hustling or busting a$$.

Im with Boyinr here. You hung him out to dry! He is doing his job and you "meandering" is not doing yours. Make your call first then if there is a problem talk to your partner. Dont yell at him across the field.

[umped up]

Yeah, I agree with you two. Meandering was a poor choice of words there. That's one thing I hate about the two man is that sometimes your angles are bad. I try everytime to get the best angle but once in awhile it happens. I was taught to ask for help like I did and probably wont use that mechanic again. Also the UIC said that the plate guy was sleeping and focused on the wrong play. I definitely see why he would watch the runner touch the plate but when the UIC told me that 1st base had precedence over watching a touch at home made me think he was sleeping at the wheel.

The only reason I used the word nitwit is that after hearing other umpires opinion about it, they had me think he hung me out to dry. When I'm behind the dish, I always make sure I'm looking down at first for a pulled foot, running lane interference and swipe tag. I usually just gamble and assume the runner touches home when I know the play is at first. I know that could get me in deep doo doo if an alert coach notices that I didn't see him touch home and decided to appeal it since he knows that I don't know.

I guess I'm a little confused now of exactly what the proper mechanic is here. I always try to help my partner out by putting an extra set of eyes on a play (whenever possible) so that I can bail him out if needed.

I do like however not to point to PU and ask, "did he pull his foot or get the tag" and simply make a call to the best of my ability from the information that was in front of me and If hell breaks loose then call time and go talk to my partner. I guess if he has nothing, I just stick with the call I made and move on. Thanks guys.

[Replacematt]

Let's start with the good things that have come from this thread:

You now know why we make calls, then go for help.

You (it seems) know why there are primary and secondary responsibilities.

Now, let's add some value to this lesson.

If the touch of home was at the same time as the tag, what are the chances your partner would have had a clear view, even if he was looking?

Here's a real-world example of the exact same thing happening to me. You can use this as a tool in the future. Immediately after the tag, I glanced at my partner. Given that his eyes were neither on me nor on F3, that gave me a pretty good clue that he didn't have anything. I made my call, and that was that. I knew that going to him after the fact would not change anything.

[umped up]

Let's start with the good things that have come from this thread:

You now know why we make calls, then go for help.

You (it seems) know why there are primary and secondary responsibilities.

Now, let's add some value to this lesson.

If the touch of home was at the same time as the tag, what are the chances your partner would have had a clear view, even if he was looking?

Here's a real-world example of the exact same thing happening to me. You can use this as a tool in the future. Immediately after the tag, I glanced at my partner. Given that his eyes were neither on me nor on F3, that gave me a pretty good clue that he didn't have anything. I made my call, and that was that. I knew that going to him after the fact would not change anything.

Makes sense! This is the exact reason why I joined this forum, not to do battle but rather to learn. Thanks for the help.

[boyinr]

IMO the mechanic of asking for help is a mechanic that is better left to those guys that travel or work as a team often enough to know each other vey well. For those of us that that have 35-50 different partners over the course of a season I would rather just make the call then, if there is some question from one of the benches, then I will meet privately with my partner to see if he had something different.

If you were in C and you ended up straight lined on the throw from F6 you might be too deep.

As U1 on this play (R3 only w/a ground ball to IF) I will line up just the the left of extension of the first base line. That way I can see the touch at home and the swipe tag/pulled foot and the possible overthrow/ball out of play.

[mstaylor]

A couple of things. First if you get straight lined and don't see a tag, he is safe. You can not guess an out. Figure out what you did wrong to get straight lined and don't do it again. The PU has responsibilities, including that touch of home, but done properly he can still help. If he is 1ble then he sees the touch and has some look at first. Maybe not the best but some look. Make the call, talk if needed, never poll the players. Good question and an excellent learning moment.

I was instructing a clinic yesterday and the PU went up to the edge of the grass on the third base side and never saw the touch of home. The very savvy manager saw this and questioned the touch. The manager knew he did but he also knew he was out of position. I told him what he did wrong but he is a slow learner. With the other team batting he had a time play and the runner wasn't at the plate yet. The other manager saw him up the line and asked if the run scored. He knew it didn't but he thought he would try. He awarded the run, so the other manager asked me about it. I told him we had a good teaching moment. During a real game it would be a yelling moment for him but during a scrimmage a teaching moment for us. He smiled and asked if he could do a 3/1 move with a R1 only. He said he knew it was a balk he just wanted to see what the umpires did. I told him to go for it. Unfortunately his pitcher was struggling so he decided against it.

[umped up]

A couple of things. First if you get straight lined and don't see a tag, he is safe. You can not guess an out. Figure out what you did wrong to get straight lined and don't do it again. The PU has responsibilities, including that touch of home, but done properly he can still help. If he is 1ble then he sees the touch and has some look at first. Maybe not the best but some look. Make the call, talk if needed, never poll the players. Good question and an excellent learning moment.

I was instructing a clinic yesterday and the PU went up to the edge of the grass on the third base side and never saw the touch of home. The very savvy manager saw this and questioned the touch. The manager knew he did but he also knew he was out of position. I told him what he did wrong but he is a slow learner. With the other team batting he had a time play and the runner wasn't at the plate yet. The other manager saw him up the line and asked if the run scored. He knew it didn't but he thought he would try. He awarded the run, so the other manager asked me about it. I told him we had a good teaching moment. During a real game it would be a yelling moment for him but during a scrimmage a teaching moment for us. He smiled and asked if he could do a 3/1 move with a R1 only. He said he knew it was a balk he just wanted to see what the umpires did. I told him to go for it. Unfortunately his pitcher was struggling so he decided against it.

Thanks for the help guys, going 1B extended would be the best bet for the PU in that situation. Definitely a learning moment....and of course me working to get a better angle for the tag.