Almost like "Skunk in the Outfield"

[gobama84]

Our HS association was sent this by email (taken from an Umpire board somewhere) and I wanted to see what you guys thought. I think I would treat it like I would treat the Skunk in the Outfield play. What say you?

Here is the situation: TOP of 6th inning with 2 outs and the score tied 0-0, R1 on 3rd Base, R2 on 1st base, B9 is at the plate with 0 Balls 1 Strike and had already struck out 2 or 3 times in the game. As the pitcher starts from the stretch, R1 breaks towards home, R2 starts running directly at the Left Handed Pitcher making a noise so that the pitcher would surely see that R2 was running directly towards the pitching mound. This causes the pitcher to hesitate or pause just before finishing his delivery towards home and the home plate umpire called a BALK! The catcher after receiving the pitch tagged out the R1 trying to steal home.

Umpire ruled a Balk and said the R2 had not established his base path and was able to run in any direction of his choice. Therefore, R1 was allowed to score and R2 was awarded 2nd Base.

Loyd

[scrounge]

He ran right at the mound? Sounds like a clear case of the offense making a noise and causing an action purely intended on causing a balk. I'd think runners should be returned to base at TOP and a team warning given for unsportsmanlike conduct.

[Rich Ives]

Attempt to cause a balk: 5-1-2-c Ball is delayed dead - no runners may advance - offender is ejected

[johnnyg08]

Yep, this is definitely not a balk. Nor is it skunk in the outfield.

[sdix00]

This is the "Broken Mirror" play.

Listed just before "Skunk in the Outfield" in the Rat's Guide to Coaching Little League.

It is intended to distract F1 only, not to make him balk. But if he balks. . .

[Rich Ives]

This is the "Broken Mirror" play.

Listed just before "Skunk in the Outfield" in the Rat's Guide to Coaching Little League.

It is intended to distract F1 only, not to make him balk. But if he balks. . .

You don't actually have to cause a balk - you only have to do something intended to cause one - so in your judgement it was intended to cause a balk. Got it?

[mstaylor]

It is the broken mirror play, a version is on Youtube. It is not illegal if done correctly. You break toward the mound, but then you turn toward second. The object is to draw a throw from the pitcher so the R3 can go home. It is right there with Skunk in the Outfield, bush but not illegal. The reason the sound was added in the OP is because the clip on Youtube the team is a deaf school so everything sounds weird.

[yawetag]

the clip on Youtube the team is a deaf school so everything sounds weird.

How would our OOOs feel about F1 taking signs off the rubber at this game. :D

[Rich Ives]

It is the broken mirror play, a version is on Youtube. It is not illegal if done correctly. You break toward the mound, but then you turn toward second. The object is to draw a throw from the pitcher so the R3 can go home. It is right there with Skunk in the Outfield, bush but not illegal. The reason the sound was added in the OP is because the clip on Youtube the team is a deaf school so everything sounds weird.

I have the break legal but the yelling not - at least in FED. Interference can be verbal in FED.

BUT - What if the pickoff throw "accidentally" hit the runner? What would you do then?

Stop it in its tracks.

[mstaylor]

The video I referenced is gone.

[gobama84]

The reason I used Skunk in the Outfield is because I have not heard of the Broken Mirror play. I would treat it the same without the noise made by the runner.

We have umpires in our association that say they would eject they runner from 1st base in both. I don't know what rule they would stand on. I would think if a coach would run the play he would already know it was legal.

[gobama84]

Attempt to cause a balk: 5-1-2-c Ball is delayed dead - no runners may advance - offender is ejected

Don't we have runners that fake a move and not go. Would you eject in that case? I would day he is trying to cause a balk. Do you eject a batter that stepped out to the box and caused a balk? Or did you read his mind also?

[yawetag]

Don't we have runners that fake a move and not go. Would you eject in that case? I would day he is trying to cause a balk. Do you eject a batter that stepped out to the box and caused a balk? Or did you read his mind also?

Others have said the "attempt to cause a balk" part occurs when the player makes the noise, not when he breaks toward the mound.

[Replacematt]

I would think if a coach would run the play he would already know it was legal.

Do not think that a coach knows what's legal or not. Some do, some don't. In many cases, it's gamesmanship. Coaches will direct illegal acts with the hope the umpires don't know that it is illegal.

[Rich Ives]

. Do you eject a batter that stepped out to the box and caused a balk?

That's a do-over because both moves are a rule violation.

[NWA_UMP]

I have had coaches from the southern part of our state try something kin to this....

Batter in box w R1 at 3rd...on cue by coach the batter steps out of the box as the pitcher is starting his move to the plate. Pitcher stops and the runner trots home for a run on the balk..."not so fast my friend"...Issue a warning for the batter to stay in the box, eject a coach and play on...or at least that's what happened after the coach went nuts 'cause we sent R1 back to third...told us we didn't know the rules casue they did "all the time" where they were from....

[grayhawk]

I have had coaches from the southern part of our state try something kin to this....

Batter in box w R1 at 3rd...on cue by coach the batter steps out of the box as the pitcher is starting his move to the plate. Pitcher stops and the runner trots home for a run on the balk..."not so fast my friend"...Issue a warning for the batter to stay in the box, eject a coach and play on...or at least that's what happened after the coach went nuts 'cause we sent R1 back to third...told us we didn't know the rules casue they did "all the time" where they were from....

Also add a strike to the batter's count - even if the pitcher didn't pitch. That should really get em going! 7-3-1 Pen.

[johnnyg08]

I have had coaches from the southern part of our state try something kin to this....

Batter in box w R1 at 3rd...on cue by coach the batter steps out of the box as the pitcher is starting his move to the plate. Pitcher stops and the runner trots home for a run on the balk..."not so fast my friend"...Issue a warning for the batter to stay in the box, eject a coach and play on...or at least that's what happened after the coach went nuts 'cause we sent R1 back to third...told us we didn't know the rules casue they did "all the time" where they were from....

That's awesome!!

[mstaylor]

Yep, kill the ball, send the runner back, charge the batter with a strike and start over. When the coach melts down I tell him it is the only do over in baseball. If the pitcher doesn't balk, call the pitch a strike, charge another strike for stepping out and pay attention for the slide at the plate. Either play is going to get you a very unhappy coach.

[cbiesecker]

I had a coach tell me about a similar play that he liked to run.

With an R3 and the pitcher starting his delivery towards home, he has the batter lower the bat to his side while turning his body towards the pitcher along with having him give the pitcher a quizzical look. He claims that this will sometimes get the pitcher to stop his delivery and hence get a balk. Since the batter didn't leave the box, what's the proper way to handle this? Is it a balk? If the pitcher ends up deliverying the ball, just call it as a ball or strike based on its location, or should it be an automatic strike?

[johnnyg08]

I think you have to judge if the batter is trying to get the pitcher to balk. If not, play on.

[carolinablue]

I had a coach tell me about a similar play that he liked to run.

With an R3 and the pitcher starting his delivery towards home, he has the batter lower the bat to his side while turning his body towards the pitcher along with having him give the pitcher a quizzical look. He claims that this will sometimes get the pitcher to stop his delivery and hence get a balk. Since the batter didn't leave the box, what's the proper way to handle this? Is it a balk? If the pitcher ends up deliverying the ball, just call it as a ball or strike based on its location, or should it be an automatic strike?

I don't think I could charge a balk to a pitcher for not delivering to a batter who suddenly drops his bat " as if " time is called. He looks unready as well so even though it's not specifically mentioned in the rule, it falls within the spirit of the rule. At the very least a do over.

[mstaylor]

It is one you have judge but most likely a do over. Years ago when LL still had balks in 60ft, an allstar manager had his kids drop their bat, step toward the pitcher, hold their hand up and yell time. The fist time I saw it it caused a balk, I killed it and reset everybody. To be honest, I couldn't explain it as well as I can now but I still sold it and it was the end of practice.