2012 NCAA Test

[Haid D' Salaami]

look at 5-5g

Art. g.

After having been notified by the team making the substitution, the umpire-in-chief shall record any substitutions on the lineup card and then announce immediately or cause to be announced any substitutions. Should there be no announcement of substitution, the substitute becomes a legal player when:

(1) A runner takes the place of another base runner;

(2) A pitcher engages the pitcher's rubber;

(3) A fielder reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder being replaced and play commences; or

(4) A batter enters the batter's box.

A.R. - Any play made by, or on, any of the above-mentioned unreported substitutes shall be legal. There is no penalty.

[johnnyg08]

Should have gone w/ my first instinct of B

[mstaylor]

Should have gone w/ my first instinct of B

According to that cite that Haid posted, it's D. It's absolutely D in FED and OBR. I don't have a NCAA book or a BRD.

[johnnyg08]

If it's true in FED and OBR it almost certainly has to be true in NCAA

[ukce1861]

This is a question from the 2012 NCAA Baseball guide (Q #11, Pg 11). They have the correct answer as C, based on 5-5b AR2. So apparently projected subs are allowed in NCAA.

[johnnyg08]

That's the one place I didn't check.

I need to remember if it's not in the rule book as illegal, then it must be legal. Thx for the post ukce1861

[zm1283]

Okay, this question is almost word-for-word on the NCAA test. It was posted in the High School section.

R1, one out, 3-2 count. B1 check swings, PU calls "Ball". F2 asks to appeal the check swing and throws to F4 who tags R1 TROTTING to 2nd. BU says "yes, he went" and PU calls B1 out.

In FED, you would return the runner since the batter was called out. In OBR, the runner has to be alert to the possibility that the batter may be called out. Anyone have an NCAA reference?

[UmpTTS43]

zm quoted it earlier.

5.5b AR2 - A substitute becomes a player when he has been reported to the umpire-in-chief and the new player is written into the umpire-in-chief's lineup card.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Okay, this question is almost word-for-word on the NCAA test. It was posted in the High School section.

R1, one out, 3-2 count. B1 check swings, PU calls "Ball". F2 asks to appeal the check swing and throws to F4 who tags R1 TROTTING to 2nd. BU says "yes, he went" and PU calls B1 out.

In FED, you would return the runner since the batter was called out. In OBR, the runner has to be alert to the possibility that the batter may be called out. Anyone have an NCAA reference?

same as OBR...

wait in FED, you would return the runner.. cause why??....and I need a FED rule on this.

[zm1283]

same as OBR...

wait in FED, you would return the runner.. cause why??....and I need a FED rule on this.

Courtesy of yawetag in the "Check Swing" thread on the High School section:

FED:

10.2.3 SITUATION H: With a count of three balls and two strikes on B2 and R1 on first base, the batter takes what appears to be a half swing. The plate umpire calls ball four and R1, upon hearing ball four, then trots to second base. The catcher throws the ball to F4 who tags R1 before he reaches base. The catcher asks the plate umpire to check with the base umpire to see if B2 did, in fact, attempt to hit the pitch. The base umpire indicates that the batter did swing at the ball. RULING: The plate umpire will declare the batter out and return R1 to first base. The umpire-in-chief can rectify any situation in which an umpire’s decision that was reversed has placed a base runner in jeopardy.

[Haid D' Salaami]

10.2.3 SITUATION H: With a count of three balls and two strikes on B2 and R1 on first base, the batter takes what appears to be a half swing. The plate umpire calls ball four and R1, upon hearing ball four, then trots to second base. The catcher throws the ball to F4 who tags R1 before he reaches base. The catcher asks the plate umpire to check with the base umpire to see if B2 did, in fact, attempt to hit the pitch. The base umpire indicates that the batter did swing at the ball. RULING: The plate umpire will declare the batter out and return R1 to first base. The umpire-in-chief can rectify any situation in which an umpire’s decision that was reversed has placed a base runner in jeopardy.

reasons why is still lame...LOL it is not the umpires fault the runner didnt run.... He ( the runner) can run past his base if he likes..LOL

[JaxRolo]

Lets say that in the case play mentioned R1 had made it safely to second would you put him back on 1st? If so, why? He is not in jeopardy.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Lets say that in the case play mentioned R1 had made it safely to second would you put him back on 1st? If so, why? He is not in jeopardy.

exactly.. stupid FED rules...

[zm1283]

Lets say that in the case play mentioned R1 had made it safely to second would you put him back on 1st? If so, why? He is not in jeopardy.

Lets say that in the case play mentioned R1 had made it safely to second would you put him back on 1st? If so, why? He is not in jeopardy.

exactly.. stupid FED rules...

From my understanding, you would not put him back on first if he reached second safely. It would be just like a steal on strike three....leave him at second.

And yes, this rule is goofy like a lot of other FED rules.

[zm1283]

Okay here is another one.

R1, R2, two outs. B1 hits a gap shot into left-center field. R2 touches third and scores. R1 misses second (the miss is observed by the correct umpire), touches third, and scores. B1 touches all the bases and stops at third. The defense gets the ball back to the pitcher from the outfield. "Time" is called by the third-base coach to confer with B1. Once the ball is legally put into play, B1 attempts to steal home. F1's throw home is wild, and B1 is safe. After the play is over, the defensive team appeals that R1 missed second on his way to third.

a. No runs score.

b. R1, R2, and B1 all score.

c. Only R2 scores. R1 is out on appeal.

d. R2 and B1 score. R1 is out on appeal for the third out.

I'm going with A unless someone has a rule reference or something else. Not sure why this one is giving me so much trouble.

[johnnyg08]

There is an OBR ruling where you lose your right to appeal if the defense makes a play after continuous action prior to their appeal.

I will look for the NCAA ruling, but in OBR, I think you'd lose your right to appeal...but I need to get in my rule books and get you some citations for sure.

[zm1283]

There is an OBR ruling where you lose your right to appeal if the defense makes a play after continuous action prior to their appeal.

I will look for the NCAA ruling, but in OBR, I think you'd lose your right to appeal...but I need to get in my rule books and get you some citations for sure.

Under NCAA (Unlike OBR), the defense can still appeal even if the offense initiates a play, which is what happened here as far as I can tell. This appeal would not be allowed under OBR, but it is under NCAA.

My confusion was about how many runs score if the appeal is upheld and R1 is called out for missing second base. It has to be A.

[johnnyg08]

Here it is: 8-6b4: if the offensive team initiates a play before the next pitch, the defensive team does not lose its right to appeal.

Based on that, I agree with you. zero runs score because the third out of the inning was a force out.

[JaxRolo]

For FED guys out there the defense loses the right to appeal after they initiate a play.

Rule: 8-2-5

NFHS.arbitersports.com/Front/Rules/Book?rulebookid=a29b2652-f3b2-448e-b1b0-7fd13d98e94d&nodeid=e49c4815-e3c2-410b-8f83-55f86e3dc59a'>ART. 5 . . . If a runner who misses any base (including home plate) or leaves a base too early, desires to return to touch the base, he must do so immediately. If the ball becomes dead and the runner is on or beyond a succeeding base, he cannot return to the missed base and, therefore, is subject to being declared out upon proper and successful appeal.

PENALTY (Art. 1 through 5): For failure to touch a base (advancing and returning), or failure to tag up as soon as the ball is touched on a caught fly ball, the runner may be called out if an appeal is made by the defensive team. The defense may appeal during a live ball immediately following the play and before a pitch (legal or illegal), granting an intentional base on balls, or before the next play or attempted play. If the offensive team initiates a play before the next pitch, the defensive team does not lose the right to appeal. A live-ball appeal may be made by a defensive player with the ball in his possession by tagging the runner or touching the base that was missed or left too early. A dead-ball appeal may be made by a coach or any defensive player with or without the ball by verbally stating that the runner missed the base or left the base too early. Appeals must be made (1) before the next legal or illegal pitch; (2) at the end of an inning, before the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory; (3) before an intentional base on balls is granted; or (4) on the last play of the game, an appeal can be made until the umpires leave the field of play. NOTE: When a play by its very nature is imminent and is obvious to the offense, defense and umpire(s), no verbal appeal is necessary, e.g. runner attempting to retouch a base that was missed, or a failure to tag up and a throw has been made to that base or plate while a play is in progress.NFHS.arbitersports.com/Front/Rules/Book?rulebookid=a29b2652-f3b2-448e-b1b0-7fd13d98e94d&nodeid=e49c4815-e3c2-410b-8f83-55f86e3dc59a'>

[UmpTTS43]

For FED guys out there the defense loses the right to appeal after they initiate a play.

Rule: 8-2-5

ART. 5 . . . If a runner who misses any base (including home plate) or leaves a base too early, desires to return to touch the base, he must do so immediately. If the ball becomes dead and the runner is on or beyond a succeeding base, he cannot return to the missed base and, therefore, is subject to being declared out upon proper and successful appeal.

PENALTY (Art. 1 through 5): For failure to touch a base (advancing and returning), or failure to tag up as soon as the ball is touched on a caught fly ball, the runner may be called out if an appeal is made by the defensive team. The defense may appeal during a live ball immediately following the play and before a pitch (legal or illegal), granting an intentional base on balls, or before the next play or attempted play. If the offensive team initiates a play before the next pitch, the defensive team does not lose the right to appeal. A live-ball appeal may be made by a defensive player with the ball in his possession by tagging the runner or touching the base that was missed or left too early. A dead-ball appeal may be made by a coach or any defensive player with or without the ball by verbally stating that the runner missed the base or left the base too early. Appeals must be made (1) before the next legal or illegal pitch; (2) at the end of an inning, before the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory; (3) before an intentional base on balls is granted; or (4) on the last play of the game, an appeal can be made until the umpires leave the field of play. NOTE: When a play by its very nature is imminent and is obvious to the offense, defense and umpire(s), no verbal appeal is necessary, e.g. runner attempting to retouch a base that was missed, or a failure to tag up and a throw has been made to that base or plate while a play is in progress.

Who is "they"? If the offense initiates a play, the defense does not lose their right to a proper appeal.

[zm1283]

For FED guys out there the defense loses the right to appeal after they initiate a play.

Rule: 8-2-5

ART. 5 . . . If a runner who misses any base (including home plate) or leaves a base too early, desires to return to touch the base, he must do so immediately. If the ball becomes dead and the runner is on or beyond a succeeding base, he cannot return to the missed base and, therefore, is subject to being declared out upon proper and successful appeal.

PENALTY (Art. 1 through 5): For failure to touch a base (advancing and returning), or failure to tag up as soon as the ball is touched on a caught fly ball, the runner may be called out if an appeal is made by the defensive team. The defense may appeal during a live ball immediately following the play and before a pitch (legal or illegal), granting an intentional base on balls, or before the next play or attempted play. If the offensive team initiates a play before the next pitch, the defensive team does not lose the right to appeal. A live-ball appeal may be made by a defensive player with the ball in his possession by tagging the runner or touching the base that was missed or left too early. A dead-ball appeal may be made by a coach or any defensive player with or without the ball by verbally stating that the runner missed the base or left the base too early. Appeals must be made (1) before the next legal or illegal pitch; (2) at the end of an inning, before the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory; (3) before an intentional base on balls is granted; or (4) on the last play of the game, an appeal can be made until the umpires leave the field of play. NOTE: When a play by its very nature is imminent and is obvious to the offense, defense and umpire(s), no verbal appeal is necessary, e.g. runner attempting to retouch a base that was missed, or a failure to tag up and a throw has been made to that base or plate while a play is in progress.

Who is "they"? If the offense initiates a play, the defense does not lose their right to a proper appeal.

He is talking about the defense as "they". The defense loses the right to appeal if they initiate a play.

[johnnyg08]

Is the Intervening play term used in NCAA? I can't find intervening play language in the rule book.

R3, no outs, suicide squeeze. The pitcher fields the ball and throws to the catcher. R3 is called safe at the plate. The catcher then throws to first, and BR is declared out for being struck by the throw while running with one foot completely outside the three-foot lane.

a.The run does not score only if there were two outs.

b.BR must be running with both feet outside the three-foot lane for interference to be called.

c.This is an "intervening play" interpretation. Count the run.

d.The run does not score. R3 returns to third.

it is either A or C.

[zm1283]

Is the Intervening play term used in NCAA? I can't find intervening play language in the rule book.

R3, no outs, suicide squeeze. The pitcher fields the ball and throws to the catcher. R3 is called safe at the plate. The catcher then throws to first, and BR is declared out for being struck by the throw while running with one foot completely outside the three-foot lane.

a.The run does not score only if there were two outs.

b.BR must be running with both feet outside the three-foot lane for interference to be called.

c.This is an "intervening play" interpretation. Count the run.

d.The run does not score. R3 returns to third.

it is either A or C.

It's C. The BRD talks about the intervening play and it does apply in NCAA.

[johnnyg08]

2-50:

A.R. 2 - If the batter-runner has not touched first base at the time of interference, all runners shall return to the base last occupied at the time of the pitch. If there was an intervening play made on another runner, all runners shall return to the base last touched at the time of interference.

[johnnyg08]

What am I over thinking here? I'm reading about all of the appeals and the only ones that seem to mention "coach" is half swings.

The rule book defines the term "appeal" as the "act of a player or coach claiming a violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires."

a. A coach may appeal a batting out of order to the PU and also appeal to the appropriate base umpire for a baserunning infraction.

b. A catcher may appeal to the PU for a half swing and that the runner sliding at second was guilty of interference.

c. A coach may appeal to the PU to "check" for a half swing or to the base umpire because the base coach was guilty of aiding a runner.

d. A first baseman may appeal to the PU for a half- swing or to any umpire for a runner at third for not retouching legally.