Odd Situation

[coach_ump4]

During a Tournament game had a situation where what was thought to be a routine infield fly turned into a mess. Bases Loaded pop up in the infield and neither 1st or 2nd made an attempt so no infield fly. The runner from 3rd comes in and scores and stands there. After being told to go on the run counts the mommy's and daddy's are screaming for him to go back and tag up. So he takes off back to 3rd base. Does his run count or did he void it by going back? Called him out after he got tagged with the ball and didn't let it count for him being crazy and running back after being told to go on to the dugout that his run counts. So the question is can you give up a run?

[Mr Umpire]

Once a run legally scored, anything the runner does cannot undo it.

No out in the OP and the run scores.

[tommy]

did someone catch the ball ? if not why would he be going back to tag up ? if the ball had not been cought the run scores, dosent matter if ran back to thierd or not. If the ball had been cought the defensive team could appeal that the runner left early for the out just like they could do on a fly ball to the out field and a runner leaves early and touches home plate.

even if you had called infield fly and took the out on the BR the runners may advance at their own risk. hope this helps

[Umpire in Chief]

Very crazy situation, but the run counts.

BTW welcome!

[Stan W.]

During a Tournament game had a situation where what was thought to be a routine infield fly turned into a mess. Bases Loaded pop up in the infield and neither 1st or 2nd made an attempt so no infield fly. The runner from 3rd comes in and scores and stands there. After being told to go on the run counts the mommy's and daddy's are screaming for him to go back and tag up. So he takes off back to 3rd base. Does his run count or did he void it by going back? Called him out after he got tagged with the ball and didn't let it count for him being crazy and running back after being told to go on to the dugout that his run counts. So the question is can you give up a run?

please explain why no infield fly??????

[tommy]

stan brings up a good point, why didnt you call the infield fly ? just because they didnt try to catch it dosent mean they couldnt catch it. If it is your opinion that the ball was not high enough or to deep or something thats fine but in your thread you said it was a routine infield fly. not ragging on ya, just a thought.

Edited May 18, 2010 by tommy

[carolinablue]

I will call IFF more often than not if the rule is in effect. The reasoning to me is this. If I call it and maybe should not have , I still have an out and may have to hear a little chirping, but since it was an IFF situation, that should be easy to shut down quickly.

If I don't call it when I should have, the mess that is left behind is unlimited in it's possibilities. Just an opinion.

[coach_ump4]

please explain why no infield fly??????

Rule states must be reasonable effort and therefore no one moved at all they just stood and looked at the ball.

[ukce1861]

Rule states must be reasonable effort and therefore no one moved at all they just stood and looked at the ball.

I don't follow your logic... An Infield Fly is a fly ball "which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort". Just because the fielders don't move doesn't mean it's not an infield fly. It sounds to me like they weren't displaying ordinary effort...

[Umpire in Chief]

With the rule it means it could have been caught with reasonable effort, lack of effort wouldn't qualify. I missed that in the OP.

[Stan W.]

if the infield fly is in effect, it is the situation calls itself......lack of effort is not to be considered....

[JaxRolo]

I don't follow your logic... An Infield Fly is a fly ball "which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort". Just because the fielders don't move doesn't mean it's not an infield fly. It sounds to me like they weren't displaying ordinary effort...

+1

You just can't have infielders just stand there on an Infield Fly and not call it.

[Mike Prince]

+1

You just can't have infielders just stand there on an Infield Fly and not call it.

+2, sounds like all of the criteria of the rule were met.

[Rich Ives]

Rule states must be reasonable effort and therefore no one moved at all they just stood and looked at the ball.

Read it. It's a fly ball that can be caught with ordinary effort. If the fielders had exerted ordinary effort could they have caught the ball? If so, then it's an infield fly.

[Dragon29]

Absolutely - In this case, I think the appropriate call would be:

"Infield Fly! Batter is Out and the infielders are clueless!"

[mstaylor]

So you have an IF, batter out and a run scored. At the end of play, just take him off the base and explain that he scored and can't unscore himself. Now if he needed to tag he can return because he hadn't legally scored.

[Rich Ives]

if the infield fly is in effect, it is the situation calls itself......lack of effort is not to be considered....

FED Yes - OBR No. In OBR it's only an IFF if it is declared so by the umpire(s).

[UmpJM]

Rich,

I concur with your observation about the difference in the wording of the rules.

In the real world, there is precedent for retroactively "fixing" an "unannounced" infield fly in certain situations, even in OBR based games.

If you just call it correctly, you don't have to worry about it.

JM

[mstaylor]

Rich:

What I think Stan means is if the conditions of an IF are met then it should be called as opposed to the OP not calling it because the fielders didn't move.

[Stan W.]

what mike said!:cheers:

[Rich Ives]

Rich:

What I think Stan means is if the conditions of an IF are met then it should be called as opposed to the OP not calling it because the fielders didn't move.

Be careful what you say - you could end up with an irate coach telling you an infield fly calls itself.

[mstaylor]

Rich are you being intentionally obtuse? Stan is saying call it if the conditions are met, even if the fielders braincramp. Fed says fix it if it isn't called, LL says fix it and I would probably would at most lower level youth. Now if the umpires judge it isn't an IF then there is nothing to fix.

[coach_ump4]

How can you call it if they fail to do what they are supposed to do. So you punish the batter even though the defense is too lazy to even try and make an attempt on the ball? That is an argument in and of itself.

[BrianC14]

How can you call it if they fail to do what they are supposed to do. So you punish the batter even though the defense is too lazy to even try and make an attempt on the ball? That is an argument in and of itself.

So what would you do - the ball falls to the infield.. and then one of them picks it up and they make an easy double play.

An infield fly is called when certain conditions are met. Even if the fielder to drop it accidentally - it's still 'Batter out'. The idea is to remove the force play ASAP so as not to jeopardize the runners.

[carolinablue]

How can you call it if they fail to do what they are supposed to do. So you punish the batter even though the defense is too lazy to even try and make an attempt on the ball? That is an argument in and of itself.

Since you are coachump, I assume you are a coach and an umpire. Let me give you a scenario to explain why I think it should be called. Say your team is batting in a close game and you have bases loaded and 1 out. Batter hits a routine pop-up on the infield between F6 and F4, but it is that time of day, dusk , where it is hard to see the ball and neither one sees it and they are standing on the infield looking up trying to find the ball. The umpires see this and do not call IFF for this reason. Your runners are frozen, they don't know what to do, all they know is the ball is in the air. At the last minute, F6 finds it and is hauling butt towards and makes a dive at it. A couple of things can happen to the offense here and neither one is good.

1) They can run and hope the ball isn't caught. If it is, it's a DP and you are pissed.

2) They can stay and hope the ball is caught, if not, it's a DP and you are pissed.

If either one of these things happen, there's a good chance your going to get run after the play. We all talk about ejections and rat coaches ect. on here but no umpire on here want's to run a coach, and especially if we screwed up. The IFF is designed to avoid situations like this and needs to be called.