What's the Call

[maroonump]

Here's the situation...

2 outs and he bases loaded. The batter hits a ground ball to second base. The second baseman fields the ball and tags the runner as he passes. Before the tag is made the runner on third scores. Does the run count? Why or why not. I've discussed this with several people and have an equal number that think the run counts as do not. Help!

[ukce1861]

Run doesn't count because the third out was a force out. Even though the runner was tagged, he was still force to advance, thus it's a force out.

[maroonump]

Thanks. That is the call that I made, but the coach I ruled against was very convincing that it was a tag/timing play. I just wanted to be sure.

[jnazz]

No run may score when the third out of an inning is a force out. Eventhough the tag was made, the runner was still forced to second. This is even true for a appeal when the third out is a force.

[Umpire in Chief]

Welcome glad we can help.

[Mr Umpire]

Just for consensus purposes since the question is answered. No run scores.

[Rich Ives]

Just for consensus purposes since the question is answered. No run scores.

Why do we need a consensus. Just read the rule:

7.08 Any runner is out when—

(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

The manager was upset because he is a member of the very large group of people that think you have to touch the base to get a force out. So as part of the discussion you have with him should be to let him know what the rule really says. He may not believe you at the time but he'll look it up.

[Mr Umpire]

Why do we need a consensus. Just read the rule:

7.08 Any runner is out when—

(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

The manager was upset because he is a member of the very large group of people that think you have to touch the base to get a force out. So as part of the discussion you have with him should be to let him know what the rule really says. He may not believe you at the time but he'll look it up.

I just put it in b/c of this: "I've discussed this with several people and have an equal number that think the run counts as do not."

I know what the rule is but was agreeing with the ones who also know it on here. Also, thanks for putting the rule which applies to this situation for others to read. Instead of just telling them to read the rule book, that answer gets old.

[DirtyDawg]

Also, thanks for putting the rule which applies to this situation for others to read. Instead of just telling them to read the rule book, that answer gets old.

It's a cop-out answer that means I don't have my rule book on me right now, and there are so damn many rules to memorize to memorize them specifically by number, so you do the hard work. Haha!! :rollinglaugh:

[calablue]

Thanks. That is the call that I made, but the coach I ruled against was very convincing that it was a tag/timing play. I just wanted to be sure.

But if the tag had taken place after the runner had passed second base, then it would have been a timing play because he was no longer forced and the run in the OP would have counted.

[BrianC14]

But if the tag had taken place after the runner had passed second base, then it would have been a timing play because he was no longer forced and the run in the OP would have counted.

Ifs and buts, candy and nuts,

let's all have a merry Christmas.

Your revision couldn't be more different from the OP, so why the need to muddy the water? :rollinglaugh:

[calablue]

Ifs and buts, candy and nuts,

let's all have a merry Christmas.

Your revision couldn't be more different from the OP, so why the need to muddy the water?

Simply stated what the case would be if the tag took place on the other side of the bag. I don't see what the big deal is, I've seen situation variations put in other threads without complaint.

[dleavitt39]

I think I have a "rookie" question. In the OP instead of F4, have F3 field the ball, and tag the BR. Is this still a force play, or does this then become a timing play...in this situation, consider R3 touched home plate before the tag is applied.

Thanks,

DL

[ukce1861]

I think I have a "rookie" question. In the OP instead of F4, have F3 field the ball, and tag the BR. Is this still a force play, or does this then become a timing play...in this situation, consider R3 touched home plate before the tag is applied.

Thanks,

DL

Tag the BR before or after he reaches 1B? If before, then no run scores because, "A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base..." (4.09 OBR)

Don't get confused by the tag - if the 3rd out could have been recorded by a fielder standing on a base with the ball (e.g. a Force Play), no run can score.

Edited May 13, 2010 by ukce1861

[dleavitt39]

Tag the BR before or after he reaches 1B? If before, then no run scores because, "A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base..." (4.09 OBR)

Don't get confused by the tag - if the 3rd out could have been recorded by a fielder standing on a base with the ball (e.g. a Force Play), no run can score.

got it. It would be before BR gets to 1b. I've heard so many differing variations of this situation, just wanted to make sure I had it right.

Thanks!

DL