WUM - Incomplete answer on P342?

[grayhawk]

I was reading the WUM today at lunch and came across the following on page 219:

P342: R1, one out, no count. Base hit. R1 misses second base. Easily out at third, but the ball is thrown out of play. When the ball leaves the fielder's hand, and when the ball goes out of play, the R1 is between second and third base, and the BR between first and second base. The umpire awards R1 home plate, and the BR third base. (a) Before he touches third base ( b ) After he touches third base, R1 returns to, and touches, second base. Both runners then advance to their awards. When the ball was put back in play, the defense tags second base, appealing that R1 missed second base.

Ruling: R1 out for missing second base. Cannot go back to touch it.

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I believe the correct answer should be:

In (a), the appeal will be denied. Since R1 did not touch a preceding base after the ball became dead, he may go back to touch his missed base. In ( b ), the appeal will be upheld and R1 shall be called out. R1 cannot go back to touch a missed base after he has touched a preceding base after the ball has become dead.

Is that correct? Did anyone else see this?

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The WUM is a wonderful resource, but it could certainly use the services of a much better editor for the next edition. It's riddled with poorly worded sentences and typos. The next reference play, P343, is also confusing because it describes R2 as missing third, but the defense appealing R1 for missing third.

[sdix00]

I was reading the WUM today at lunch and came across the following on page 219:

P342: R1, one out, no count. Base hit. R1 misses second base. Easily out at third, but the ball is thrown out of play. When the ball leaves the fielder's hand, and when the ball goes out of play, the R1 is between second and third base, and the BR between first and second base. The umpire awards R1 home plate, and the BR third base. (a) Before he touches third base (B) After he touches third base, R1 returns to, and touches, second base. Both runners then advance to their awards. When the ball was put back in play, the defense tags second base, appealing that R1 missed second base.

Ruling: R1 out for missing second base. Cannot go back to touch it.

**************************

I believe the correct answer should be:

In (a), the appeal will be denied. Since R1 did not touch a preceding base after the ball became dead, he may go back to touch his missed base. In (B), the appeal will be upheld and R1 shall be called out. R1 cannot go back to touch a missed base after he has touched a preceding base after the ball has become dead.

Is that correct? Did anyone else see this?

**************************

The WUM is a wonderful resource, but it could certainly use the services of a much better editor for the next edition. It's riddled with poorly worded sentences and typos. The next reference play, P343, is also confusing because it describes R2 as missing third, but the defense appealing R1 for missing third.

I agree with your rulings.

I do not think the ruling should be the same in both situations.

[Thunderheads]

Ok, ...

So basically, .... R1 CAN retouch as long as he doesn't touch 3rd first? Correct? That's what I'm reading, yes?

[LMSANS]

Ok, ...

So basically, .... R1 CAN retouch as long as he doesn't touch 3rd first? Correct? That's what I'm reading, yes?

Yes.:rolleyes:

[Thunderheads]

Ok, ...

So basically, .... R1 CAN retouch as long as he doesn't touch 3rd first? Correct? That's what I'm reading, yes?

Yes.

Just making sure I understand it Larry,..can't blame me for that

[LMSANS]

Ok, ...

So basically, .... R1 CAN retouch as long as he doesn't touch 3rd first? Correct? That's what I'm reading, yes?

Yes.

Just making sure I understand it Larry,..can't blame me for that

That wasn't meant to be sarcastic...I think I hit the wrong picture :cheers:

[Thunderheads]

Ok, ...

So basically, .... R1 CAN retouch as long as he doesn't touch 3rd first? Correct? That's what I'm reading, yes?

Yes.

Just making sure I understand it Larry,..can't blame me for that

That wasn't meant to be sarcastic...I think I hit the wrong picture

No problem Larry! Rules etc are NOT my forte, I'll be the first to admit. I love to read these scenarios here and make SURE I understand them. I little overdoing it sometimes doesn't hurt. But, thanks for clarifying!:beerbang

[Mr Umpire]

Ok, ...

So basically, .... R1 CAN retouch as long as he doesn't touch 3rd first? Correct? That's what I'm reading, yes?

Just remember, it matters when R1 touches 3B and the ball goes OOP. If he touched it before the ball went OOP and not HP yet, he can return to touch 2B. If he touches 3B after the ball goes OOP, then he cannot return to touch 2B legally.

[mazzamouth]

Ok, ...

So basically, .... R1 CAN retouch as long as he doesn't touch 3rd first? Correct? That's what I'm reading, yes?

Just remember, it matters when R1 touches 3B and the ball goes OOP. If he touched it before the ball went OOP and not HP yet, he can return to touch 2B. If he touches 3B after the ball goes OOP, then he cannot return to touch 2B legally.

Key word... he can physically, but not legally..LOL

[carolinablue]

Ok, ...

So basically, .... R1 CAN retouch as long as he doesn't touch 3rd first? Correct? That's what I'm reading, yes?

Just remember, it matters when R1 touches 3B and the ball goes OOP. If he touched it before the ball went OOP and not HP yet, he can return to touch 2B. If he touches 3B after the ball goes OOP, then he cannot return to touch 2B legally.

Key word... he can physically, but not legally..LOL

Runner misses 2nd. Ball goes OOP with runner between 2nd and 3rd. You call time and announce the award of home. Runner touches third and then decides that he better go back and touch 2nd. Do you allow him to go through with it and then uphold the appeal if the defense does appeal or do you stop him and tell him he can no longer touch 2nd. The reason I asked is that if you tell him he can't do it, it will tip the defense that he missed the base but if you allow him to go through with it then the defense may falsely think that he corrected the mistake and no need to appeal. I hope that makes sense.

[yawetag]

Runner misses 2nd. Ball goes OOP with runner between 2nd and 3rd. You call time and announce the award of home. Runner touches third and then decides that he better go back and touch 2nd. Do you allow him to go through with it and then uphold the appeal if the defense does appeal or do you stop him and tell him he can no longer touch 2nd. The reason I asked is that if you tell him he can't do it, it will tip the defense that he missed the base but if you allow him to go through with it then the defense may falsely think that he corrected the mistake and no need to appeal. I hope that makes sense.

Let him do whatever he wants.

[Mr Umpire]

Runner misses 2nd. Ball goes OOP with runner between 2nd and 3rd. You call time and announce the award of home. Runner touches third and then decides that he better go back and touch 2nd. Do you allow him to go through with it and then uphold the appeal if the defense does appeal or do you stop him and tell him he can no longer touch 2nd. The reason I asked is that if you tell him he can't do it, it will tip the defense that he missed the base but if you allow him to go through with it then the defense may falsely think that he corrected the mistake and no need to appeal. I hope that makes sense.

Let him do whatever he wants.

Yup

[grayhawk]

Ok, ...

So basically, .... R1 CAN retouch as long as he doesn't touch 3rd first? Correct? That's what I'm reading, yes?

Just remember, it matters when R1 touches 3B and the ball goes OOP. If he touched it before the ball went OOP and not HP yet, he can return to touch 2B. If he touches 3B after the ball goes OOP, then he cannot return to touch 2B legally.

Key word... he can physically, but not legally..LOL

Runner misses 2nd. Ball goes OOP with runner between 2nd and 3rd. You call time and announce the award of home. Runner touches third and then decides that he better go back and touch 2nd. Do you allow him to go through with it and then uphold the appeal if the defense does appeal or do you stop him and tell him he can no longer touch 2nd. The reason I asked is that if you tell him he can't do it, it will tip the defense that he missed the base but if you allow him to go through with it then the defense may falsely think that he corrected the mistake and no need to appeal. I hope that makes sense.

Both the offense and defense have to know what to do. All you do is give the award and watch what happens. Even though you told the runner to score, he has to know that he has to go back and touch his missed base before touching any preceding bases while the ball is dead. Also the defense has to know that if the runner either didn't go back to touch second, or if he touched third after the ball became dead and then went back to touch second that they should appeal the missed base.

Frankly, I would be shocked if any coaches or players knew this rule, and would be twice as shocked if they actually caught it and made a proper appeal.

[Thunderheads]

Both the offense and defense have to know what to do. All you do is give the award and watch what happens. Even though you told the runner to score, he has to know that he has to go back and touch his missed base before touching any preceding bases while the ball is dead. Also the defense has to know that if the runner either didn't go back to touch second, or if he touched third after the ball became dead and then went back to touch second that they should appeal the missed base.

Frankly, I would be shocked if any coaches or players knew this rule, and would be twice as shocked if they actually caught it and made a proper appeal.

AMEN TO THAT!!! :)