simpler balk question

[th3]

after a pitcher takes his signes, in the set position...when he brings his hands together and comes set...does that have to be a continuous motion? in other words, can he stand up straight and shorten is stance with his hand still behind his back, and then bring his hand up to the glove? no, right? fed if it matters

[calablue]

after a pitcher takes his signes, in the set position...when he brings his hands together and comes set...does that have to be a continuous motion? in other words, can he stand up straight and shorten is stance with his hand still behind his back, and then bring his hand up to the glove? no, right? fed if it matters

When I first read this I thought " I've got nothing here" , but the more I tried to picture it and then actually went through the motion, the more I changed my opinion and started thinking I could see how it probably could be called a balk. I'm not sure if it is, but if he stops after straightening up and shortening his stride then it seems to me that he has balked by not doing his stretch in one continous motion. But I also think it may be being picky because he doesn't seem to gain any advantage nor does it seem that the batter or runner is put at a disadvantage because he still has to come to a complete stop with his hands together before he can deliver the pitch. :shrug:

[kwiggie]

I personally would be hard pressed to gig f1 on this.

[th3]

i didnt becuase i wasnt sure and no one else was looking for it..but it looked and fealt like a balk

[noumpere]

after a pitcher takes his signes, in the set position...when he brings his hands together and comes set...does that have to be a continuous motion? in other words, can he stand up straight and shorten is stance with his hand still behind his back, and then bring his hand up to the glove? no, right? fed if it matters

If there's a pause between the stance-shortening step and the joining the hands, then it's a balk. If there's no pause, then it's legal.

[MSPChris]

I personally would be hard pressed to gig f1 on this.

From the OP. what I "see" is this:

1) Pitcher in the stretch

2) Pitcher stands up, shortens his stride, and stops

At that point, he's SET. if he does anything other than pitch, throw to a base, or step off, you have to call the balk.

From OP, it sounds like after 2), pitcher brought his hands together and stopped again. that's a balk, and you have to call it.

One poster said, (paraphrasing) that it's hard to see any intent or any deception there, so you shouldn't be too picky. That's a bad habit to fall into -- you don't call it and the next umpire does because it's a balk and now the next umpire has to clean up after you because F1 and HC want to know why it's a balk now when "that's been his motion all year, blue."

The next umpire gets all the grief because you didn't enforce the rule...

[calablue]

At that point, he's SET. if he does anything other than pitch, throw to a base, or step off, you have to call the balk.

The SET POSITION requires that his hands be together, so if he pitches after he straightens and stops and his hands aren't together THAT is also a balk.

[mstaylor]

Bang him if he stops between the two moves. Now what I have seen some guys do is start the just before he stops his feet, that's OK. But if there is a stop between then balk him. It is a technical balk, just dropping the ball or stepping off with the wrong foot.

The big thing to remember is if you caall it, be able to explain it.

[JaxRolo]

At that point, he's SET. if he does anything other than pitch, throw to a base, or step off, you have to call the balk.

The SET POSITION requires that his hands be together, so if he pitches after he straightens and stops and his hands aren't together THAT is also a balk.

So all he can do is step off and reset?

[jnazz]

It's a balk. It wasn't a fluid and continuous motion (which includes bringing your hands together). So, as soon as he comes up and stops (without bringing his hands together) it's a balk.

Remember, if it looks like a balk --- it's probably a balk.

[mstaylor]

It's a balk. It wasn't a fluid and continuous motion (which includes bringing your hands together). So, as soon as he comes up and stops (without bringing his hands together) it's a balk.

Remember, if it looks like a balk --- it's probably a balk.

I agree but I repeat my admonishment to be able to explain it if you call it. It looked wierd is not an explanation, which I have heard.

[jnazz]

I agree 100%.

I actually had an explanation for a non-balk call for a coach on Friday that stopped him in his tracks.

Situation - R1. Pitcher accidently takes "full windup" positon on rubber. As the right handed pitcher steps off with his right foot, the runner breaks and the 1st base coach screams "That's a balk; That's a balk!" The runner is out by 5 steps at second and here comes the argument. "He started his motion. That's the most obvious balk I've ever seen!" He said this loud enough for everyone to hear. So I reply (loud enough for everyone to hear) "He stepped off with his right foot which is his pivot foot. This is not a balk. There's nothing wrong with that play!" The coach turns around, puts his head down and walks back to his position without another word. Take that!

p.s. this is the same coach who adimately argued against my delayed balk call a few weeks ago. He couldn't get how the play continues if the batter reaches and the runner advances, eventhough it benefited his team. Go figure.

[kwiggie]

From the OP. what I "see" is this:

1) Pitcher in the stretch

2) Pitcher stands up, shortens his stride, and stops

I see nothing in the op that refers to a stop in and between the stretch and bringing the hands together. What I am reading is that f1 is coming to set feet first, hands second, no pause between = no balk. I have read nothing in fed that states that f1 must come to set with his legs and arms simutaneously, only that it must be a continuous motion. So what is the difference whether f1 brings everything together all at once, feet followed by hands, or vice versa?

[noumpere]

I see nothing in the op that refers to a stop in and between the stretch and bringing the hands together. What I am reading is that f1 is coming to set feet first, hands second, no pause between = no balk. I have read nothing in fed that states that f1 must come to set with his legs and arms simutaneously, only that it must be a continuous motion. So what is the difference whether f1 brings everything together all at once, feet followed by hands, or vice versa?

It must be continuous, I agree.

That said the OP specifically asks about that and uses the phrase "... and then ..." indicating a separate, discrete movement. That's a balk.

[mstaylor]

I agree that you can have two moves as long as they make one continuous motion. The OP was asking if he comes together with his feet and stops, then brings his hands together. This is not continuous, it's two seperate actions.

[calablue]

So all he can do is step off and reset?

He can't even do that. He could have stepped off or made a pickoff throw before he came to a stop, but when he came to a stop without his hands together he balked.

like I said in my first post, I think I would have a hard time calling this. I guess if it were really obvious or I heard a lot of complaints about it I might but I'd probably give him a don't do that quietly and off to the side otherwise.

Edited May 12, 2010 by calablue

[JaxRolo]

I'd probably give him a don't do that quietly and off to the side otherwise.

Sometimes when I have an inexperienced pitcher in the younger age groups i tell the catcher what the Pitcher is doing so he can call time and fix it before I balk him