LL - Bunted ball contacts batter

[TC3]

New umpire.

I read the other recent thread about this; but still have some questions.

It appears that the leading inside corner of each batter's box is within fair territory. Is that correct?

Situation: Left-handed batter bunts ball, ball travels down and left to land within the batter's box but also within fair territory. Ball bounces up and contacts batter's leg as batter begins his run for 1st base.

Batter is out because he was struck by batted ball in fair territory, or, batter is safe because batter is protected by batter's box? Which is it?

If the latter, is it a fair or foul ball?

Where in the LL rule book are the batter's box "protections" spelled out.

Thanks!

[Umpire in Chief]

I cannot speak specifically to LL, but if it hits him in the box it is a foul whether it hit him in fair or foul.

[BrianC14]

New umpire.

I read the other recent thread about this; but still have some questions.

It appears that the leading inside corner of each batter's box is within fair territory. Is that correct?

Situation: Left-handed batter bunts ball, ball travels down and left to land within the batter's box but also within fair territory. Ball bounces up and contacts batter's leg as batter begins his run for 1st base.

Batter is out because he was struck by batted ball in fair territory, or, batter is safe because batter is protected by batter's box? Which is it?

If the latter, is it a fair or foul ball?

Where in the LL rule book are the batter's box "protections" spelled out.

Thanks!

For that situation, the batter is still within the confines of the batter's box and so this would be a foul ball - even though this is fair territory.

[mstaylor]

You ask a great question. The small portion of the batter's box is to be considered fair if the ball comes to rest there. If it hits there and hits the batter in the box then call it foul. It is almost impossible to be able to tell if it hit exactly in the right spot plus as the game goes on the box goes away.

You are asking good astute questions, keep it up.

[JaxRolo]

You ask a great question. The small portion of the batter's box is to be considered fair if the ball comes to rest there. If it hits there and hits the batter in the box then call it foul. It is almost impossible to be able to tell if it hit exactly in the right spot plus as the game goes on the box goes away.

You are asking good astute questions, keep it up.

+1

I agree with previous answers. Keep asking questions they are good ones!

[TC3]

Got it.

Thanks to all.

[DoIneedGlasses??]

No offense guys, but no one answered his question and it's been driving me crazy because I've been looking for this answere for the past three hours.... Where are the protections in the "batter's box" spelled out in the rules. As far as I've read it the rule in 605 (f) states the batter is out if a fair ball touches said batter before before touching a fielder. It makes no reference to the batter being in or out of the box. I know there are different levels of baseball which provide examples and delineate that one or both feet must be out of the box, but I could not find it set out anywhere in the LL rule book. I realize I must be missing something, but please just give me a citation ....lol.

Thanks....looking forward to some sleep...lol

[mstaylor]

You will not find it explained in the book. You need to look at manuals because this is done by common usage but is the way to call it. An exact reading of the rulebook would be that the corner is fair, always. In the practical world it is impossible to tell where it hits in the box so just consider it all foul except on the rare occasion that the ball comes to rest in that little corner, then it's fair. Once in 36 seasons is not a call to be overly concerned about. Because it's rare it should be a known ruling but in the greater bscheme of things, you may never need to call it. You may have to explain it but not call it.

[Rich Ives]

See 6.05(g) in the 2010 OBR - they "fixed" it.

In NCAA it's in 7-7-e

In FED it's 7-2-1-f

[DoIneedGlasses??]

mstaylor, thanks for the response, but I'm not sure we're discussing the same thing. I'm not talking about the ball that comes straight off the bat and down to the batters foot which may or may not be technically in fair terrritory. I'm more concerned about the situation where after contacting the ball, the batter takes his first step out of the box and clearly in fair territory in front of the plate. His other foot is still in the box when the ball hits his front foot. I keep reading posts that it's a fool ball by rule since he's not out of the box. I know there are some leagues (I believe FED rules are one) which give a clear example or sets it out in the rule that the batter must be out of the box or it's a foul ball, but nowhere in the LL rules is that set out. It seems like all that is necessary in LL is for the batted ball to be in fair territory when the batter touches it regardless of whether or not the batter is compeletely out of the box.

I'm not trying to be nit-picky (sp), but there are clearly different rules for different leagues and often it becomes a big fuss when umpires call it the same way across leagues when the rule may actually be different. I'm just trying to find a rules based justification for not calling an out in the situation I laid out above in a LL game, that goes beyond..."Well, that's just the way we call it". And opposed to the "ball resting in the fair corner of the batter's box" which does occur rarely, kids will often be struck or step on the ball as they step out of the box on a bunt attempt or even the ever enjoyable swinging bunt.

Thanks again,

[mstaylor]

(f) a fair ball touches said batter before touching a fielder;

“The Right Call” Casebook -- Comment: When this happens it is almost always as a batter leaves the batter’s box. Make sure the batter is out of the batter’s box when you call this, otherwise, call “foul ball”.

It doesn't say explicitly one or two feet out but it reads like two.

[DoIneedGlasses??]

Thank you !!!! Woo Hoo. I knew I saw this somewhere but just couldn't track it down. I would agree that it reads like two feet need to be out and that's why it's so universally called this way. Too bad I didn't come here sooner...could have saved myself hours of scouring....lol.

[Umpire in Chief]

We're here to help... Glad to have you here.

[mstaylor]

Glad to have you on the board. Feel free to ask away.

[noumpere]

mstaylor, thanks for the response, but I'm not sure we're discussing the same thing. I'm not talking about the ball that comes straight off the bat and down to the batters foot which may or may not be technically in fair terrritory. I'm more concerned about the situation where after contacting the ball, the batter takes his first step out of the box and clearly in fair territory in front of the plate. His other foot is still in the box when the ball hits his front foot. I keep reading posts that it's a fool ball by rule since he's not out of the box.

I'd have an out in FED. See 8.4.1B

[Thunderheads]

Guys this happened to me last night.

RH batter, bunted the ball, and hit his front knee as he was leaving the box, right foot in the air and his knee over the plate, left foot fully in the box still, ....I called FOUL BALL!!! Hit him RIGHT HERE and pointed in the box .....

Nothing, ...but a parent who had been sitting there said kind of under his breath, ..."ohhh he was out of the box" , of course, I didn't say anything to him, but I knew he wasn't out of the box ...

Guys, ...it's GOT to say something somewhere in either FED or OBR.....

One foot, both feet out, ...what is OUT of the box?

Edited June 22, 2010 by Thunderheads
re-wording

[Rich Ives]

Guys this happened to me last night.

RH batter, bunted the ball, and hit his front knee as he was leaving the box, right foot in the air and his knee over the plate, left foot fully in the box still, ....I called FOUL BALL!!! Hit him RIGHT HERE and pointed in the box .....

Nothing, ...but a parent who had been sitting there said kind of under his breath, ..."ohhh he was out of the box" , of course, I didn't say anything to him, but I knew he wasn't out of the box ...

Guys, ...it's GOT to say something somewhere in either FED or OBR.....

One foot, both feet out, ...what is OUT of the box?

Read the rules I posted. Make sure you use the 2010 books.

[noumpere]

Read the rules I posted. Make sure you use the 2010 books.

+1. I seem to recall that it's been discussed numerous times here (or maybe BE) over the past several months.

[Thunderheads]

Read the rules I posted. Make sure you use the 2010 books.

Thanks Rich, ...on MLB.com, they still have an older version of (g) but thanks, I'll check it out!