One that haunts you?

[th3]

Anyone else have one that haunts them? I do...

A few years ago when i was just starting to expand my number of games and do a lot of baseball, after doing slow pitch and young fast pitch softball for a lot of years...so i saw something new in every baseball game for a long time...early on i got a final of a spring league...10's i think...1st inning, guys on base....and a kids hits a spinning foul ball that, at a medium speed, spins in an arc towards the 1st base dougout and then arcs back toward 1st base, spinning and settling right up against the foul side of the base...i dont know if i called foul early, or if i waited until the ball came to a rest to make the wrong call...but I got it wrong...runs would have scored and it was a close game and they lost...no one questioned it right at the time...the coach asked me about it between innings and i kind of blew him off...i am certainly aware now that if a ball hits the bag its fair....i dont know why i called it foul..i was all of a sudden very uncertain about the rule....its absolutely the one that haunts me and i've spent a lot of time with the rule books to try to make sure uncertainty about a rule doesnt happen again...

[BrianC14]

I know of two really bad ones that I'd like to have back.

But personally, I'm trying to forget them, so I'm not about to recreate them in a forum.

:rollinglaugh:

[NovaScotiaBlue]

I make a point of not letting them haunt me.

Over the years I have had a number of, "educational opportunities" on the diamond. For me it's something that happens once. It's the reason I started keeping a game journal. After the game I get out the rule book, or case book or come to a forum like this figure out how to rule, or prevent the same thing from happening again and I make myself a better umpire. Letting calls from the past stick with you and eat you up won't make you a better umpire. Learning from them and preventing them from happening again does.

[arbiter22]

I don't really let a play haunt me. I mean I might be down about it that night, but not for long. I just learn from it and move on.

[mazzamouth]

I was U1 in a Senior legion Zone Tourny, and I thought that the batter had hit a ball that hit his foot, plate ump didnt say anything, and the ball was really spinning weird like it had hit something ( the batter foot) so i called it foul, coach came out to argue, but I told him what I had, it would have been a ground out, and on the next pitch or 2 the batter hits a 2b.... so later i asked the batter if it had hit his foot, and he told me "no, but I can see how you thought that, it was really close to my foot"... some time you live and die with your calls....LOL

[Umpire in Chief]

None of my own that really haunt me. I've had the few where I'd mis-applied a rule or blew one, but those are as NovaScotiaBlue said "educational opportunities" and have gotten over them.

The ones that are still a sore spot for me are issues between me and my partner(s).

Early in my career we were in the bottom of the 10th inning of a LL Sr's game with a runner on third. I was behind the plate. I didn't see it happen, but the pitcher apparently went to his mouth and then directly to the ball. My partner called a balk to score the winning run.

The coaches, the loosing team and parents all went ape sh1t. I didn't have much experience handling situations, didn't have a firm grasp of the rules, and got my head a bit unscrewed in the situation. I met with my partner (more senior than me) and asked what he had. When he told me I told him I didn't think he was right but he assured me he was . We got the hell out of there post haste for obvious reasons and had our post game over the phone. I pulled into a nearby store parking lot to read the rule and then found out we blew that one. He still tried to persuade me he was right, so discussing it with him was useless. I called my commish ad told him the situation and was ready to go back there for free. Luckily nobody filed an appeal.

Another time in a Pony game I was BU and had R2 w/ 2 outs BR hits one through the infield and F5 some how runs into R2. I announce the obstruction and there is a banger at the plate. My partner calls him out. I called time and met with my partner to tell him I had obstruction and we should award him home. My partner (once again more senior than me) argues that he was only protected to third on my obstruction call. I argued the rule back with him, but could not get him to change his call.

Then I had this situation too.

These type things bother me more than any bad call.

[LMSANS]

This one doesn't really haunt me, but I do think about it when reviewing balks...

I was BU for a JV game between 2 neighboring towns. R2, outs doesn't matter.

F1 is the son of an acquaintance, he doesn't know me, but I know who he is.

F1 turns to feint to 2B and stops before throwing. I immediately yell "Balk!" and direct R2 to 3B. I immediately knew I blew it.DC asks for time and comes out and asks me to get some help. I see this as my way out. I call my partner over and say to him "I blew that, when we separate I will send the runner back to 2B." He just stood there nodding his head as I spoke.

I did as I said, DC said thank you and moved off the field. OC never said a word.

DC eventually became the V coach and puts me on his list every year.

[mstaylor]

I have made calls that were horrible but I just use them to learn. Do you feel bad when you make them, sure, but the important thing is to learn from it and don't repeat it. I have had conflicts with partners but that's going to happen.

The one that sticks with me is one from several years ago. I may have told this but here goes. I blew the call, discussed with my partners and couldn't get it fixed. It was a first round play-off, 2 outs in the top of the seventh. The home team needs to get one out to move on. They get a simple grounder the SS who hasn't hit the F3 all game. He follows suit and pulls him down the line, the F3 just has to tag the BR but chooses to wack him hard enough to change his direction. I ejected the fielder and put the BR on first. When we go to restart the game I realize the runner should have been called out and game over. I called time and pulled my partners together to get it right. They didn't believe me and refused to reverse the call. Even though I was senior and the rules interpreter, I wasn't the crew chief and I was out voted. That really bothered me because it extended the game and the home team lost.

[chuck]

Could the call be corrected if a proper protest is made?

[Umpire in Chief]

Could the call be corrected if a proper protest is made?

In MST's situation I believe this would be a protestable situation as a misapplication of the rules.

[mstaylor]

It certainly could have been protested if the manager had done something except complain about the call. He came out and discussed how he thought is wasn't the right call but never questioned the enforcement at all. It should have been corrected without a protest but that was point of the post.

[mstaylor]

There were three umpires on the field and since I wasn't the UIC I had to convince at least him that the call was wrong. I agree that it was mine to make and change, but in a case where you come together to discuss a rule interpretation, the majority will rule. If I could have convinced them to follow my lead, I would have made the call and taken the heat and subsequent argument. I just think you can freelance a call change like that without the crew argreeing.

If I had made the call, the manager came out to discuss it and I realize my mistake then I certainly good with changing it on my own. Once I made it, discussed it with both the manager and my crew then I don't think I can play Lone Ranger and change it solo. I am willing to hear others thoughts on how to get out of that mess I put myself in.

[Umpire in Chief]

A no win situation

[mazzamouth]

A no win situation

thats not true someone won...LOL

[UmpJM]

There were three umpires on the field and since I wasn't the UIC I had to convince at least him that the call was wrong. I agree that it was mine to make and change, but in a case where you come together to discuss a rule interpretation, the majority will rule. If I could have convinced them to follow my lead, I would have made the call and taken the heat and subsequent argument. I just think you can freelance a call change like that without the crew argreeing.

If I had made the call, the manager came out to discuss it and I realize my mistake then I certainly good with changing it on my own. Once I made it, discussed it with both the manager and my crew then I don't think I can play Lone Ranger and change it solo. I am willing to hear others thoughts on how to get out of that mess I put myself in.

Michael,

The only time the UIC has the authority to decide is when two different umpires make two different calls on the same play.

Otherwise, even if he chooses to solicit additional input from his partner(s), it is solely the calling umpire's prerogative to reverse or sustain his original call.

Now, if I were to call "A" on a play, then get my partners' input and they are both adamant that "A" was the correct call, I would have to be absolutely certain that "B" was correct before I would reverse my call.

Now for my own personal "haunting call".....

I had the dish is a 1st round summer HS Varsity playoff game.

About the 3rd inning, HT at bat, 1 out, R3 & R1. The team on offense puts on a suicide squeeze, F1 "startles" a bit as he realizes what's going on and ends up throwing the pitch in the dirt in front of the LH batter's box to a RH batter. The batter does everything he can to get his bat on the ball, but the pitch is so off target that he simply can't reach it. F2 does a nicde job of sliding over to block the pitch, it bounces off his chest protector and is rolling slowly in the LH batter's box. As the catcher goes to retrieve it, the batter, using his bat much like a hockey player would during a face-off or while going after a loose puck in the crease, goes after the ball AGAIN and ends up knocking it away from the catcher. (At the time, I remember finding this sequence of action highly amusing.)

I immediately come up with a big, "TIME! That's INTERFERENCE! (Pointing at the location of the ball-bat contact). As I point at R3 and start to announce he is out, I made my fatal mistake.

I "thought" - what I thought was, wait a minute, there's something screwy about this rule - it's different with less than two out. So, instead of calling the R3 out for the batter's interference, I send him back to 3B (& the R1 back to 1B) and call the batter out.

The OFFENSIVE HC then politely come out and asks for an explanation of my ruling. (It was clear to him that his batter had interfered, he just wanted clarification of the penalty I imposed.) I calmly give him a thorough explanation - which was completely bass-ackwards - how, if there had been 2 outs at the time, his R3 would have been out, but with less than 2 outs the batter is called out.

He thanked me and returned to his dugout. As I recall, the R3 ended up scoring . When the half-innning ended, the other HC stopped by on his way to coach 3B and also calmly asked me for a clarification of my ruling on the BI call. I gave him the same explanation and he thanked me.

I realize during the next inning that I kicked it and got the "with less than two outs" part completely backwards. To this day, I believe the Offensive HC - who benefitted from my rule misapplication - was actually trying to throw me a life preserver when he came out to question the call.

Naturally, I had an evaluator at the game - one of the "big dogs" in my association who also happens to be a state-certified clinician. On my evaluation, he "dinged" me on "rules knowledge" but gave me an "excellent" rating on "handling situations".

The reason this one "haunts" me is that I KNEW the rule. Heck, I'd explained the rule to others previously numerous times. In the heat of the moment, I "second guessed" myself and ended up in a total "brain lock" until an inning later. As far as I know, this is the only time I have ever misapplied a rule during a game I was calling.

JM

Edited January 16, 2010 by UmpJM

[UmpJM]

ump_24,

That is correct. I am suggesting that if Michael was CERTAIN he had improperly ruled on the initial play, he should have reversed it, despite his partners' belief that his initial ruling was correct.

JM

[Quickstrike33]

aau ball a few years back. game teetering on 10 run rule going into the top of the seventh. home team is out of pitching and the visitors just keep scoring run after run after run...they are up by 20 plus runs when i decide to sacrifice a lamb for the last out to get to the bottom of the seventh and get things over...i call a third strike on a left handed batter, the pitch had to be three feet off the out-side corner. i'll never forget the look in the young man's eye's as he shook his head and walked off. i don't know why it bothered me so badly, but it did. i have since done sort of the same, in somewhat same situations, just not to that extreme. i really do think it only makes the umpire look bad, i just hope the parents and the kids understand...sometimes the coach himself could help out, but sometimes there's only so much they can do...i think the older the players, the harder it is to justify, after all, some of these guy's have scouts watching, and they don't want to be the "lamb".

[mstaylor]

I understand what you are saying and I was 99% sure but there was a slight glimmer I might have it wrong, it was a new rule. This is why I pulled them back together to see if I could get rid of the 1%. They were way less sure than I was and didn't want the resulting storm. After the game we had a good long discussion about it and I told them I would know for certain as soon as I got home. I did and it really bothered me for several days after that.

[th3]

mike just so im not missing something - the runner was clearly out on the tag right? you just plain lost track of that in the heat of the ejection? and when you conferenced, everyone knew that you clearly saw the out? do you know if you called the out before calling the uc?

[mstaylor]

The play happened right in front of me, I called the MC, ejected the player and told the BR to get on first. I was thinking along the lines of obstruction. The DM called out expplained what kind of idiot I was and went back to the dugout. To be honest, I'm not sure why we got together. Once I realized my mistake, I called the other guys together and discussed how to continue.