Bangers

[BHanlon]

I seem to be having problems with bangers at 1B this season, I believe I have proper distance and angle but fall apart when the play happens immediately doubting my call. Even when I have proper distance in B or C the plays seem to be exploding. At the same time if I am watching a partner make a call I see it perfectly.

I have tried following the throw (ball) from the player to the golve, other times I have just focused on the glove once I know a play is evolving waiting for the ball and the runner to arrive. I do not use sound.

Any suggestions?

[sdix00]

I seem to be having problems with bangers at 1B this season, I believe I have proper distance and angle but fall apart when the play happens immediately doubting my call. Even when I have proper distance in B or C the plays seem to be exploding. At the same time if I am watching a partner make a call I see it perfectly.

I have tried following the throw (ball) from the player to the golve, other times I have just focused on the glove once I know a play is evolving waiting for the ball and the runner to arrive. I do not use sound.

Any suggestions?

You will get some better advice than mine on this thread, however the two bolded items in your OP struck me.

1. USE Everything. Use all the evidence available to you, including sound.

2. It is possible you are too focused on the wrong things when you have to make the call (i.e. tunnel vision), yet when you are just observing , it is possible your brain is working better and taking in all the info more efficiently.

I find that I am much better able to make a good call when I just relax and watch what happens. Having good timing allows me to process everything I just took in and render a decision.

Case in point, a few weeks ago I had this sitch in a LL tourney:

R3. Passed ball. F1 covers home and F2 fires to F1. The ball was thrown so hard that it slammed in to F1's glove and the force of the ball snapped F1's glove down and i heard the glove graze across R3's toe right before R3 slid across the plate at which time F1 re-tagged R3 on the plate.

It all happened so fast but I stood there for a beat and processed the gloving of the throw and instant "tick" of the glove across R3's foot and realized I have a TAG well before the second tag that everyone else was focusing on. I banged the runner and the monkeys climbed the fence, as expected. It did not bother me because I was 100% sure of what I had, because I was relaxed and let everything process.

I explained to the manager that the runner was out well before the tag of the runner on the plate.

____

Relax, and use all evidence available to you to make your decision.

[slaternation]

I was taught by D1 guys to get in position, get set, look at the front corner of the bag and relax and just let it happen. Situation, sight and sound. Sound seems to be the most important on bangers. What did you hear...Snap/Thud or was it Thud/Snap. Since taking on this mechanic I have felt much better on the bangers.

[carolinablue]

Most good ballplayers and umpires have an internal " baseball clock " that lets you know this one is going to be close. You can just tell as a play develops it's going to be a banger and sometimes it can bite you because you may put added pressure on yourself to see it better or get it right. I think the relax and make the call advice already given is good.Go ahead and accept that what ever you call on these plays is going to be met with a degree of complaining from somebody. Don't let that bother you, we all have to hear it.

Of course as always, make sure you are using proper timing as well.

Also, if you have an oppurtunity to do any fast pitch softball games, it can be excellent practice. I have never done it but have been told by others that it's banger after banger. If you could get a base assignment in a scrimage or something you can work on it.

[jim knight]

I always take every play at first the same way... watch the ball only half way to first to determine if it will be on line or not... then turn and watch the bag and listen for the ball. If the throw is off line move and widen your vision to include the ball but still watch the bag for the runners foot... practice between innings by watching the infields warmups.... ball only half way then focus on the bag and listen.

[JaxRolo]

practice between innings by watching the infields warmups.... ball only half way then focus on the bag and listen.

Excellent advice!!!

[jjb]

Not an uncommon problem. You've got "the yips" It happens in golf, basketball, and every other sport I can think of. The problem is this: you're thinking too much.Getting into the minutiae of "sound/base/ball/foot/tag/glove is clogging your brain housing group (USMC phrase, right, Lou?). Just relax, let it happen, think about what you saw, and make the call.

[BHanlon]

Also, if you have an oppurtunity to do any fast pitch softball games, it can be excellent practice. I have never done it but have been told by others that it's banger after banger. If you could get a base assignment in a scrimage or something you can work on it.

- Actually, this is where I am having most of my problems as I am also doing mens modified. Most players are hard core baseball players one or two years removed from Legion ball. I suspect it is a tunnel vision, " focussness" (Jim Thome-ism) problem. In fact the other night I had a play at 1B where F3 dived and I was so focussed on watching the tag/no-tag on BR I completely missed the glove landing on the bag a half step ahead of the runner. I was spot on with the missed tag, everyone else saw the golve hit bag first. Pretty embarrassing when I reversed after consulting with partner as I knew I never followed glove toward bag.

I'll try to work the sound of the ball into the glove and relax more before I get exiled to arm-chair umpiring.

Thanx all!

[Thunderheads]

I always take every play at first the same way... watch the ball only half way to first to determine if it will be on line or not... then turn and watch the bag and listen for the ball. If the throw is off line move and widen your vision to include the ball but still watch the bag for the runners foot... practice between innings by watching the infields warmups.... ball only half way then focus on the bag and listen.

Bingo!!

And to add .... always think LESS about things ........for instance, ..... you're looking for an out as an umpire right? So you're listening for KA_BOOM ...or KA_THUD ....anything else is safe .........for the most part ....

To be honest .....I just now this season finally started doing this ( I know, I know....) ...but WOW....the light went on and the Ahh-Hahh moment happened ....it's SOOO much easier to make calls like this.....

[noumpere]

I seem to be having problems with bangers at 1B this season, I believe I have proper distance and angle but fall apart when the play happens immediately doubting my call. Even when I have proper distance in B or C the plays seem to be exploding. At the same time if I am watching a partner make a call I see it perfectly.

I have tried following the throw (ball) from the player to the golve, other times I have just focused on the glove once I know a play is evolving waiting for the ball and the runner to arrive. I do not use sound.

Any suggestions?

Try to use sound as there was some article by or about MLB umps or the academies that indicated that when they used sound they were always right but when they added the visual they often got it wrong. As two example show - that of Joyce and the no-hitter last year and whoever the ump was in the Cardinals world series many years ago. Those plays happened in a way where sound could not be used and the umps kicked them.

[Thunderheads]

I seem to be having problems with bangers at 1B this season, I believe I have proper distance and angle but fall apart when the play happens immediately doubting my call. Even when I have proper distance in B or C the plays seem to be exploding. At the same time if I am watching a partner make a call I see it perfectly.

I have tried following the throw (ball) from the player to the golve, other times I have just focused on the glove once I know a play is evolving waiting for the ball and the runner to arrive. I do not use sound.

Any suggestions?

Try to use sound as there was some article by or about MLB umps or the academies that indicated that when they used sound they were always right but when they added the visual they often got it wrong. As two example show - that of Joyce and the no-hitter last year and whoever the ump was in the Cardinals world series many years ago. Those plays happened in a way where sound could not be used and the umps kicked them.

No, not necessarily, ....there was no "sound" of a cracking mitt in either case....

[noumpere]

I seem to be having problems with bangers at 1B this season, I believe I have proper distance and angle but fall apart when the play happens immediately doubting my call. Even when I have proper distance in B or C the plays seem to be exploding. At the same time if I am watching a partner make a call I see it perfectly.

I have tried following the throw (ball) from the player to the golve, other times I have just focused on the glove once I know a play is evolving waiting for the ball and the runner to arrive. I do not use sound.

Any suggestions?

Try to use sound as there was some article by or about MLB umps or the academies that indicated that when they used sound they were always right but when they added the visual they often got it wrong. As two example show - that of Joyce and the no-hitter last year and whoever the ump was in the Cardinals world series many years ago. Those plays happened in a way where sound could not be used and the umps kicked them.

No, not necessarily, ....there was no "sound" of a cracking mitt in either case....

Right thats what I said or at least what I meant. No sound equates to a missed call so the original guy should use sound when he can.

[NFUA_44]

Its all about Timing. Other valuable tips have been provided above, especially using audio, but start with one very simple concept that will ALWAYS put you in the best position to have all the info you need, Timing.

Slow Down. Let the play happen. See if the throw is going to be online, make your adjustments, or not, based on that, let it all come together in front of you, pause, say it to yourself (I personally envision what I'm gonna do) and then hit the call. As I've told many new guys what's the worst their going to say about you? "Hey there's that Umpire that is so slow!" Cool, I'm gettin banged on for taking my time? I'm diggin it. You might get chirped on once, by a new coach or new fans, but think about it, their over there thinking that you took your time to get the call right. Where's the issue? Once you've learned a comfortable timing mechanic these calls become easier since you put less pressure on yourself, at that time you'll have more options on how you "sell" a banger, but that's another topic for another day.

[Thunderheads]

I seem to be having problems with bangers at 1B this season, I believe I have proper distance and angle but fall apart when the play happens immediately doubting my call. Even when I have proper distance in B or C the plays seem to be exploding. At the same time if I am watching a partner make a call I see it perfectly.

I have tried following the throw (ball) from the player to the golve, other times I have just focused on the glove once I know a play is evolving waiting for the ball and the runner to arrive. I do not use sound.

Any suggestions?

Try to use sound as there was some article by or about MLB umps or the academies that indicated that when they used sound they were always right but when they added the visual they often got it wrong. As two example show - that of Joyce and the no-hitter last year and whoever the ump was in the Cardinals world series many years ago. Those plays happened in a way where sound could not be used and the umps kicked them.

No, not necessarily, ....there was no "sound" of a cracking mitt in either case....

Right thats what I said or at least what I meant. No sound equates to a missed call so the original guy should use sound when he can.

Ohhh, sorry, I misread that .... got it

[NFUA_44]

Ohhh, sorry, I misread that .... got it

Geez Jeff, now we gotta read to? What's the world coming to, next thing you know I'll have to buy the rulebook. :shakehead:

[NWA_UMP]

I always take every play at first the same way... watch the ball only half way to first to determine if it will be on line or not... then turn and watch the bag and listen for the ball. If the throw is off line move and widen your vision to include the ball but still watch the bag for the runners foot... practice between innings by watching the infields warmups.... ball only half way then focus on the bag and listen.

Bingo!!

And to add .... always think LESS about things ........for instance, ..... you're looking for an out as an umpire right? So you're listening for KA_BOOM ...or KA_THUD ....anything else is safe .........for the most part ....

To be honest .....I just now this season finally started doing this ( I know, I know....) ...but WOW....the light went on and the Ahh-Hahh moment happened ....it's SOOO much easier to make calls like this.....

I have picked up little tips here and there on this site...many have helped me improve my game tremendously over last two seasons. However, I think this single thread of advice may help me equal everything I have done over the same time period. I think the toughest call to make is in the two man system is when the defense is turning the double play. The relay to 1st with a banger there is probably the hardest call to make. You are in "B" focused on the touch at 2 and then to track the ball to F3 with no visual reference of the runner heading down the line to-wards you makes that call a "train wreck" at times. Your angle is usually not the best due to your positioning in "B", throws tend to be to the wide side of first, F is stretching for the throw and the batter/runner is in full sprint down the line. I have had this season at least two calls that I called out just because I was not convinced they were safe. I have replayed those plays over and over. I am a ball tracker from throw to mit and listen for the sound of the foot hitting bag. But at times when turning two your distance is such that the foot strike is not as loud as the coach is yelling, the sound that a runner makes when hustling down the line and general crowd noise...the foot strike can get "lost". I have a feeling that single piece of advice will make that play a bit easier...not to mention just a flat out banger in general.

[PeteBooth]

I seem to be having problems with bangers at 1B this season, I believe I have proper distance and angle but fall apart when the play happens immediately doubting my call. Even when I have proper distance in B or C the plays seem to be exploding. At the same time if I am watching a partner make a call I see it perfectly.

I have tried following the throw (ball) from the player to the golve, other times I have just focused on the glove once I know a play is evolving waiting for the ball and the runner to arrive. I do not use sound.

Any suggestions?

Another term for bangers is "coin-flip" calls. Remember that

In a 2 person system at least from the C position I would not use sound as a guide. You might have crowd noise etc.

You have to "SELL" the bang bang call. It's inevitable One side might say "great call blue" and the other side might say "Common blue you are kidding me"

It's called the world of umpiring.

Here are some things I use (right or wrong) If it's truly a banger. Reward a great play or great hustle. here is what I am referring to.

Ground ball DEEP in the hole. F6 makes a great play and fires to F3. The call is a coin Flip - Reward the great play. For the most part just about everyone expects it.

Conversely if it's a routine play and say F4/F6 are taking their "sweet time" in getting to the ball and turns what should be an easy play into a coin-flip reward the offense.

if you are "falling apart" there could be many reasons

1. Did you move-up recently? perhaps the level of play has you "spooked"

2. You get those games where you have many bangers. Perhaps you got one and are not sure of yourself.

This statement I do not understand

At the same time if I am watching a partner make a call I see it perfectly.

if the aforementioned is true then the reason you are falling apart is because you are nervous and now have to "take the heat" when questioned wheras when you see your partner make the call you are more relaxed knowing that it is his call and he has to deal with the coach.

Umpiring in a way is similar to when we played. When the ball is hit we need a "mental clock" that says I am supposed to be here and that's where we strive to be. Angle over distance. You get the best angle you can, Stop, pause, Read and then react. Timing is the key.

In summary: if it's truly a banger you will have one side happy and the other upset. Hopefully it's 50-50 but that's not always the case. Also, SELL the call.

Pete Booth

[sdix00]

I always take every play at first the same way... watch the ball only half way to first to determine if it will be on line or not... then turn and watch the bag and listen for the ball. If the throw is off line move and widen your vision to include the ball but still watch the bag for the runners foot... practice between innings by watching the infields warmups.... ball only half way then focus on the bag and listen.

Bingo!!

And to add .... always think LESS about things ........for instance, ..... you're looking for an out as an umpire right? So you're listening for KA_BOOM ...or KA_THUD ....anything else is safe .........for the most part ....

To be honest .....I just now this season finally started doing this ( I know, I know....) ...but WOW....the light went on and the Ahh-Hahh moment happened ....it's SOOO much easier to make calls like this.....

I have picked up little tips here and there on this site...many have helped me improve my game tremendously over last two seasons. However, I think this single thread of advice may help me equal everything I have done over the same time period. I think the toughest call to make is in the two man system is when the defense is turning the double play. The relay to 1st with a banger there is probably the hardest call to make. You are in "B" focused on the touch at 2 and then to track the ball to F3 with no visual reference of the runner heading down the line to-wards you makes that call a "train wreck" at times. Your angle is usually not the best due to your positioning in "B", throws tend to be to the wide side of first, F is stretching for the throw and the batter/runner is in full sprint down the line. I have had this season at least two calls that I called out just because I was not convinced they were safe. I have replayed those plays over and over. I am a ball tracker from throw to mit and listen for the sound of the foot hitting bag. But at times when turning two your distance is such that the foot strike is not as loud as the coach is yelling, the sound that a runner makes when hustling down the line and general crowd noise...the foot strike can get "lost". I have a feeling that single piece of advice will make that play a bit easier...not to mention just a flat out banger in general.

The issues you describe on the 6-4-3/4-6-3 are familiar to me. I did get a better handle on this after reading (and re-reading) "Maximizing" by Evans and watching the Umpire Teacher video on this subject.. UT clearly identifies this issue and reminds BU not to get too close to the play at 2B (which I was definitely doing), but to get to an optimum angle for the call at 2B, but to shade toward 1B since this will be the critical call. Practicing the proper footwork as specified in "Maximizing" goes a log way to building those angles early and naturally. I practiced it for a couple weeks (needed extra practice because it mandates moving AWAY from 2B when the play takes you there). After a few games, I felt much better about my "baseball clock" at 1B. I got a better angle on the bag, better distance, and I was able to see the play develop at 1B sooner.

Just my experience with this particular issue.

[yawetag]

I am a ball tracker from throw to mit and listen for the sound of the foot hitting bag.

Are you saying you watch the ball all the way from the throw to when it's caught? If so, that's your problem. Watch the throw and make a quick judgement on whether it's a good throw or not (this comes with experience; it's my fifth year and I'm just now getting comfortable with the judgement). Once you make that determination, you do one of two things: (1) If it's a good throw, focus on the play at the base; (2) If it's not, adjust as needed and watch the play.

There should never be a time that you track the ball through it's complete path to a base.

[Dragon29]

OK - I've read all of this and there has been some excellent advice proffered.

I'd like to re-iterate what a couple of people have said about judging the quality of the throw and then focusing on the base. Do not follow the ball all the way to the glove with your eyes in a situation like this - you'll miss something every time, and everything sometimes.

The one thing that no-one has mentioned specifically is what I think your actual problem could be - distance. If you're any closer than about 12', you're too close.

To me, it sounds as if you are just plain too close to the play. I say this because of your comment about seeing it plainly when a partner is making the call. Nerves could be an issue, but try this anyway:

Get back farther than you think you should be - father than where you are comfortable - and make some calls from there. I'd be willing to bet these plays will get a lot easier to call if you start doing that.

JMHO

[Texarkana]

I seem to be having problems with bangers at 1B this season, I believe I have proper distance and angle but fall apart when the play happens immediately doubting my call. Even when I have proper distance in B or C the plays seem to be exploding. At the same time if I am watching a partner make a call I see it perfectly.

I have tried following the throw (ball) from the player to the golve, other times I have just focused on the glove once I know a play is evolving waiting for the ball and the runner to arrive. I do not use sound.

Any suggestions?

Some great advice so far. Ever notice MLB umpires kneel or get low? I asked a former ump why and he gave me some tips that if used properly, you will never miss a banger in spite of what others may think. The key is to watch, listen and SLOW DOWN while replaying the play in your mind like a video rewinding.

1 - Using sight and sound and slowing down, get in the proper angle and watch the foot and listen and watch (if you can) for the ball to hit the glove. On impact of the ball hitting glove, if the foot and leg is going down, it is an out. If it is coming up, it is safe. I have taught this to many people and after practicing it, they come back and tell me how much better they are making the calls at first on bangers.

It is natural when a player is moving down the line for it to look like he is safe. Watch baseball on tv and see how many times you think an ump missed a call at first by banging the runner only to find out when they slow the tape down he was right on the money by banging the out.

[noumpere]

I am a ball tracker from throw to mit and listen for the sound of the foot hitting bag.

Are you saying you watch the ball all the way from the throw to when it's caught? If so, that's your problem. Watch the throw and make a quick judgement on whether it's a good throw or not (this comes with experience; it's my fifth year and I'm just now getting comfortable with the judgement). Once you make that determination, you do one of two things: (1) If it's a good throw, focus on the play at the base; (2) If it's not, adjust as needed and watch the play.

There should never be a time that you track the ball through it's complete path to a base.

I agree with this and I think NWA (ha! isnt that a rap group) has it backwards. You should watch the bag and listen for the ball not watch the ball and listen for the foot.

[NWA_UMP]

Noumpere - thanks for the constructive critique.

You may think that mechanic is incorrect. It may also depend on the level of ball one is calling. If you are working 9-12's it may be the prefered method to do it...you know most of those guys have hoses for arms and really pop the mitt.

I started working on that level and have moved steadily up to the highest high class in the state for high school...even selected to work the state tourney. I have been asked to "tryout" during a tourney later this summer for a chance to join a new association that schedules juco and DII ball. That does not mean I will be assigned those games, but it opens the door.

This thread will help me in this opportunity. NWA maybe a rap group...but it's the area I live in...northwest Arkansas.

[noumpere]

Noumpere - thanks for the constructive critique.

You may think that mechanic is incorrect. It may also depend on the level of ball one is calling. If you are working 9-12's it may be the prefered method to do it...you know most of those guys have hoses for arms and really pop the mitt.

I started working on that level and have moved steadily up to the highest high class in the state for high school...even selected to work the state tourney. I have been asked to "tryout" during a tourney later this summer for a chance to join a new association that schedules juco and DII ball. That does not mean I will be assigned those games, but it opens the door.

This thread will help me in this opportunity. NWA maybe a rap group...but it's the area I live in...northwest Arkansas.

First I do not work that level of 9-12s and I never did.

Secondly, congradulations on your moving up the ladder and maybe into college ball. I remember when I did that and it was a great achievement and I am always happy to see other guys do it as well.

Third I knew what you meant by NWA even though the A could have been a couple of places. I was just trying to make a joke and I did not mean ony offence by it.

[NWA_UMP]

Noumpere...non taken. I remember NWA...the group...not my cup of tea we'll say.

I didn't mean to get snippy with you. Long week at the office and it just hit me wrong. The theory/strategy in this thread just turned on a light for me. I usually keep a good angle and distance on my calls from "B" when turning 2. I have had a couple that I called out and had to replay in my head a couple of times to make sure I got the call correct. I even had to dump a coach over one...later talked to one of our UIC's that was watching the game and indicated that I got it right...but his angle was not the best. At my age I am looking for anything that Will help me improve every time I hit the field. I started this gig too late in life(40) to go too far with it. The best I can hope for is to make DII...I'm OK with that. Same situation in football. My kids have gotten to an age where I can call more stuff and not feel like I'm missing a bunch of stuff.

I'll try out my new found strategy this weekend and we'll see how it goes...