dropped 3rd

[HokieUmp]

I agree that you call the batter out right away, but we are dealing with kids here. They here the batters out, but they think that is your routine strike three call so he decides to run thus confusing the catcher.

There's the problem - the "routine" strike three call.

Here's my "repertoire," if you will:

Called 3rd strike, caught: Well, technically, I say Strike Three in two separate sounds, as I have two-move punchout, but it sounds more like "Hike! Hooah!" or something like that. (1st move: right arm shoots up in the air; 2nd move: pulling the bow, but using the left hand to pull the bowstring. Sorry, I'm more left inclined, and no "right-centric" punchout feels natural to me - and I'd rather not have to be out thinking about my choreography.)

Swinging 3rd, caught: No words, and a low hammer.

Uncaught versions: Same, with a "No catch!" and a safe signal.

Uncaught versions, when the runner isn't entitled to run: Same physical moves, but instead of "No catch!", I just say "Batter's out" a couple times.

So all of those should be different enough that there shouldn't be one mixed up for the other. If _I_ can keep track off all that, so can they.

If the runner does run, anyway, so? Let him - he's young and full of energy. When he gets down to first, he's still out, and I'll let him know. And if he gets farther than that, thanks to a bad throw or throws, he's still out, and he'll find out.

But it's still live, so the play's not getting killed.

This then would be cause for interference due to the fact that the batter is confusing the catcher. Say the runner did not run to second and the catcher then proceeds to throw to first base because he sees the kid at the plate going to first and he cannot make a tag. Would you allow what happened to happen or would you bring the kid at second back to first since there was technically an interference on the play.

Not technically an interference. It's called a f#$k up, and it happens all the time. If an R1 gets second, or other runners move up, because the defense doesn't know the situation, well, too bad.

According to the rules of baseball, being dumb's not a crime.

Yet.

[noumpere]

Good point - and this brings up the necessity for using the term "Strike 3, no catch!" with the 'safe' mechanic on an uncaught 3rd strike when first base is open or when it's occupied with 2 out.

A "routine" third strike call in that sitch would be a problem, as we've seen.

Yes, thanks for adding that.

I will add, in turn, that the "no catch" need only be given if there's any doubt (usually when F2 gloves the bounced pitch). If the ball is rolling toward the dugout or, as in one of these discussions, out of play, then there's no need to give the "no SH*#!" call.

[carolinablue]

What is the proper mechanics for a check swing uncaught third strike in which you need to appeal on ? Also the proper mechanics if your not sure the ball was caught or not. Is this something you should get help on ?

[Finnblue]

I wouldn't say "No catch" at all, just call 3rd strike. "No Catch" would be telling the runner that he can go to first. It's up to both notice the situation, I'm not there to coach.

MS

[Aging_Arbiter]

Hmmm... be advised the beer might be more expensive than a plane ticket.

Chimay Grande Reserve... 750 ml bottle, ABV 9.00%. About $11.00 at the local. Each.

We may need a few of these...

Looks like something Warren brewed up in the basement.:givebeer:

[BrianC14]

I wouldn't say "No catch" at all, just call 3rd strike. "No Catch" would be telling the runner that he can go to first. It's up to both notice the situation, I'm not there to coach.

MS

Actually, doing so is an acceptable practice at all levels of baseball. It's not coaching, it's no different than calling 'foul ball' if the ball is chopped off the ground and it either touched the batter or catcher (in foul territory) and the batter thinks it might be a fair ball. :givebeer:

[DirtyDawg]

I agree that you call the batter out right away, but we are dealing with kids here. They here the batters out, but they think that is your routine strike three call so he decides to run thus confusing the catcher. This then would be cause for interference due to the fact that the batter is confusing the catcher. Say the runner did not run to second and the catcher then proceeds to throw to first base because he sees the kid at the plate going to first and he cannot make a tag. Would you allow what happened to happen or would you bring the kid at second back to first since there was technically an interference on the play.

Where in my above statement did I say batters out was part of my strike three signal?? I didn't, and if you had mistaken it that way I am sorry. All I am saying is we are dealing with young kids here who are learning the game. They do not know what is routine here and what is not. The whole point behind my statement was that you can call the batter out right away but the kid might not know the difference.

[DirtyDawg]

What is the proper mechanics for a check swing uncaught third strike in which you need to appeal on ? Also the proper mechanics if your not sure the ball was caught or not. Is this something you should get help on ?

If it is the swing that you are going to need help on you call it a ball until you get the question of appeal from either the catcher or coach and then you ask the partner for help. If he says it's a strike, then you play it like a dropped third strike and let the chaos begin. As far as whether or not the ball was caught or not, you do it the same way as an appeal on a checked swing as far as I know. Just ask.

[mstaylor]

If I have any question on a uncaught third strike and a checked swing, ask imediately. If you have a checked swing and you have no question then say imediately," No, he didn't go!" That way there is no question whether it is a third strike or a ball. If you have a question if it bounced or not or if the catcher caught it clean, many guys have their BU do an open hand/closed hand to give them help without a delay.

As far as the BR advancing when he shouldn't, call him out at least twice to let everyone know what the situation is. If he is allowed to go then announce the strike and show a safe signal. Some guys,like Brian, say no catch or something similar. That is certainly acceptable, I don't, but many do. If it is a swinging strike show the strike, then the safe signal, no verbal on the strike.

As already stated, there is no interference for trying to advance when not allowed. This is in the book. If the catcher throws to the wrong base then he will learn something.

[Finnblue]

Defence has a little advance in dropped third strike - in most times they notice it before batter does. So if batter leaves the circle and is called out or offencive coaches tell the batter run, the play goes "normally". But it's up to the players and coaches to notice the situation. I think that this is like missed base.

I have posted this here earlier, but it's still good to remember what can happen. The PU did great in this: he went to U1 immediately for the check swing, then called it a strike. The rest was up to the teams.

MS

[DirtyDawg]

I like that, I've seen it somewhere before, but can't remember where.

[Finnblue]

I like that, I've seen it somewhere before, but can't remember where.

I guess here, I posted it twice.

MS

[DirtyDawg]

Maybe.....I don't know. I like to paruse youtube for stupidly retarded baseball plays, too. You ever seen the killer bees play??

[noumpere]

Defence has a little advance in dropped third strike - in most times they notice it before batter does. So if batter leaves the circle and is called out or offencive coaches tell the batter run, the play goes "normally". But it's up to the players and coaches to notice the situation. I think that this is like missed base.

You can think what you like, and you might even be right in how it's handled in Finland.

But, the taught practice in the USA is to verbalize the "no catch" when it's needed. I think this might be in the MLBUM.

Take a similar play -- a low liner to F4. F4 might catch the ball or might short-hop the ball. Are you just going to stand there without making a call?

If there's a check swing on a D3K when BR can try for first -- ask immediately without waiting for an appeal. As an advanced mechanic, BU can just step up and give an answer without being asked, IF (and only if) BU rules that the batter offerred. I know this part in in the MLBUM.

[Finnblue]

You can think what you like, and you might even be right in how it's handled in Finland.

But, the taught practice in the USA is to verbalize the "no catch" when it's needed. I think this might be in the MLBUM.

I worked three years in TX, so I know a little thing of USA, too. I was taught to call strike three and let the players do playing. During that time NO US umpire verbalized "no catch" in this situation.

Take a similar play -- a low liner to F4. F4 might catch the ball or might short-hop the ball. Are you just going to stand there without making a call?

That is not similar call. The ball was hit to F4, not pitched. I try to clear this later (busy at work).

MS.

[mstaylor]

in

This a mechanic that has come into being in the last several years. It stemmed from a weird play in the MLB and they changed the mechanic. It is probable that it wasn't done in Texas when you were there but things change.

[SNIPERBBB]

In regards to to the BR running with first base occupied, it should be an emphatic, "Batter is out, Batter is out!"

[Finnblue]

So now, if either of the teams miss the situation, they can blame the umpire - as usual...