Old Situation Need some advice

[jkumpire]

Hi folks, need your assistance. Please note, cross-posted on Umpire-Empire.

Midwestern college wood bat league, pretty good quality of play. R1, 1 out, count doesn't matter. LH batter swings at inside pitch, gets a piece, F2 comes up in my view and blocks me out, and the next time I see the ball it's rolling down the 1B line a pretty good clip.

I look the batter, he gives no sign or expression of the ball hitting his foot on leg. He takes 2 steps up the line, stops, and the manager in the 3B box starts yelling "it hit him, foul ball". I didn't blink, but I had no view of the play.

I let the play end, killed the ball and went to my partner immediately. I asked him "Did you see the ball hit the batter's foot?" His answer was in essence, "No I didn't".

I turned around called the out, and got an earful from the offense HC, which was expected. They were winning 6-0 at the time, and won 7-0, but I am troubled by the play. My question: If you are blocked and can't see the ball hit the ground, obviously you look to see what the batter does, but if he gives nothing away do you call it foul based only on the reaction of the ball?

I ask because the dirt immediately around the plate was soft, as opposed to the rest of the dirt circle around the rest of the plate, so a ball could act like it hit a foot, but it didn't. I had no foul ball, my partner had no foul ball, we have an out.

What say you? and ask for any other information about it I can give you.

[grayhawk]

You took in all of the available information and you made your call. I say way to go even if you were wrong. Nice job of being an umpire if you ask me.

[mjr_2013]

Can't call what you don't see! Most umps would have not wanted to upset a manager and would just do as they call, which is a no-no, because in good level ball like you're umping they'll catch on to that.

Nice job!

[yawetag]

I posted an answer on the other site. It was similar to YOH's -- you can't call what you don't see.

[semper_fi_72]

Can't call what you can't see.

Play it out and then check with partner as you did.

If he was a good partner and observed the ball hit off the batter he should have been calling the foul as soon as it happened.

Good job.

[Guest]

The only other information you can gather here is the sound you hear when the ball hits "the ground" - it'll either be that smack accompanied by the smattering of dirt or the soft thud of the ball hitting the batter's foot - and the spin of the ball: if it struck his foot, the ball would've had some kind of funky spin on it.

Inside pitches that are fouled off a foot by a LHB typically go to the 3B side of the field. I think you're right here. In either case, don't let it bother you.

[Mr Umpire]

1 thing to add to this and it should be pregamed with your partner if need be. But, the fact that your partner didn't call foul when it happened should have told you what he had on the play. He obviously didn't have a foul ball so there should be no reason to get together on this. Either he has a foul ball and calls it or he doesn't and the play goes on.

I had this earlier this year. Coach came to me and asked if I would ask my partner. I told him "My partner told me everything I needed to know without asking him. If he had a foul ball, he would have called it. Since he didn't, I am not asking him." Conversation ended and he quietly went back to the dugout. No need to get together when his no call was obvious to me of what he had on the play. Out stood and I never went more than 5 feet from the plate.

[jkumpire]

1 thing to add to this and it should be pregamed with your partner if need be. But, the fact that your partner didn't call foul when it happened should have told you what he had on the play. He obviously didn't have a foul ball so there should be no reason to get together on this. Either he has a foul ball and calls it or he doesn't and the play goes on.

I had this earlier this year. Coach came to me and asked if I would ask my partner. I told him "My partner told me everything I needed to know without asking him. If he had a foul ball, he would have called it. Since he didn't, I am not asking him." Conversation ended and he quietly went back to the dugout. No need to get together when his no call was obvious to me of what he had on the play. Out stood and I never went more than 5 feet from the plate.

Mr. Umpire, I like your thinking here. I probably just should of not asked him to begin with. However, NCAA wants the "get the call right stuff", and if I have something like this I thought in this case it's better to to make sure i have what I have. Excellent post.

[mstaylor]

I agree with MrUmpire, if you have confidence in your partner. At the level you are working that shouldn't be an issue.

[LMSANS]

I had a very similar situation in a varsity game this year... I was BU. I didn't have a foul, nor did my partner. It is possible we didn't read the batter's reaction correctly.

The coach asked PU if he could get some help. I didn't call it so I had nothing. The coach is now discussing the play with me instead of PU. Post game I let him know that he shouldn't have sent the coach to me, because I didn't call it. We did discuss in pre-game.

[jkumpire]

I had a very similar situation in a varsity game this year... I was BU. I didn't have a foul, nor did my partner. It is possible we didn't read the batter's reaction correctly.

The coach asked PU if he could get some help. I didn't call it so I had nothing. The coach is now discussing the play with me instead of PU. Post game I let him know that he shouldn't have sent the coach to me, because I didn't call it. We did discuss in pre-game.

Sorry to hear that LM. I told the manager what I had, I'd never hang a partner out to dry like that.

John