FED Appeal

[kwiggie]

How do you guys handle HS teams that want to ask for an appeal but just don't know how?

example:

Game the other night I am PU, a routine play fielded by F6 throwing to B1 for the put out on batterrunner. The BU calls "out" on a closer than should of been play at B1. A couple of the visiting team players (at bat) start yelling for a pulled foot by F3, which there was from my view at home. During summer ball I have yet to meet a playercaptain at any of our pre-game meetings so I nor my Partner are looking for any players who can ask for an appeal. We just have a bunch of players looking at me and the BU asking for an appeal. I take a look up the B3 line and see the visiting "coach" staring at me waiting to see what is going to happen. The asking is now turning into yelling (not out of control but getting hotter) by the visiting team players. All attention is now focused on me and no one has yet asked for an appeal properly. As a result I say "Only coaches, and captains may ask for an appeal!" So with that said the visiting coach, who was staring at me blankly pipes up and goes "Oh sure... I would like to ask for an appeal then". The appeal was made and the call was corrected, pulled foot batterrunner safe. Home team coach gets fired up saying "You gave them that blue, if he (the visiting coach) doesn't know how to get an appeal you ain't here to get it for him!"

After thinking about this the Home coach has a very valid point, and it still bugs me because I do feel like I did "get it" for the visiting coach, which is why I am probably posting it here.

How do you guys handle this situation?

1. Inform the teams of the appeal process? (like above)

2. Ignore the yelling, play stands... "let's move on" (after a minute or two)

3. As PU jump in and meet with BU to correct the play without an official appeal by coachcaptain? (I would not like this as an option, credibility of BU at stake IMO)

4. Mention the appeal process during pre-game conference? (have never heard of this but...)

The BU and me did not have a hand signal to let him know that I had "information" that he might want to hear... we will next time.

[Umpire in Chief]

If you are PU the call is the BU's until he asks for help. Coaches and players can ask you until their blue in the face, but you shouldn't be involved until you partner asks for help.

[MCLEOD36]

Only in WI...LOL

In pregame, you can talk about that with your partner, ie a signal for help. Otherwise, you handle it at a pregame meeting with coaches and captains. Only those two, ie HC and captain should be listened too. If you dont have a pregame, with partner or coaches, you are toast and this happens. As for the call, Make the right one, you huddled and did....Nice job.

Just keep in mind pregames with partners and coaches will eliminate this stuff. Dont listen to anyone else, PLAY ON.

[Mr Umpire]

Until the coach steps up and goes to the umpire who made the call, I keep quiet. Which, I think you already know that by now. It is not our job to help them figure out what theirs is.

So, stand there and listen for "Time" from the coach. If you don't hear it, then go on to the next play.

Although you did lead the coach, he still has to do it and the BU has to be willing to ask for help. So, you didn't do all of his job and you didn't do your partner's either. But, I try not to say anything which helps them to figure out what to do. I may look at the coach to see what he wants but out the corner of my eye through the mask. If he does nothing, here comes the next pitch.

Generally, they have their job to do and should know how to do it. They expect it from us, so why not return the same notion? If you want to inform him, do it after the game and away from everyone so no one over hears your conversation.

[mstaylor]

The OP said the BU did ask for an appeal. You don't have to wait for the coach to do it if your partner asks on his own.

[noumpere]

How do you guys handle HS teams that want to ask for an appeal but just don't know how?

example:

Game the other night I am PU, a routine play fielded by F6 throwing to B1 for the put out on batterrunner. The BU calls "out" on a closer than should of been play at B1. A couple of the visiting team players (at bat) start yelling for a pulled foot by F3, which there was from my view at home. During summer ball I have yet to meet a playercaptain at any of our pre-game meetings so I nor my Partner are looking for any players who can ask for an appeal. We just have a bunch of players looking at me and the BU asking for an appeal. I take a look up the B3 line and see the visiting "coach" staring at me waiting to see what is going to happen. The asking is now turning into yelling (not out of control but getting hotter) by the visiting team players. All attention is now focused on me and no one has yet asked for an appeal properly. As a result I say "Only coaches, and captains may ask for an appeal!" So with that said the visiting coach, who was staring at me blankly pipes up and goes "Oh sure... I would like to ask for an appeal then". The appeal was made and the call was corrected, pulled foot batterrunner safe. Home team coach gets fired up saying "You gave them that blue, if he (the visiting coach) doesn't know how to get an appeal you ain't here to get it for him!"

After thinking about this the Home coach has a very valid point, and it still bugs me because I do feel like I did "get it" for the visiting coach, which is why I am probably posting it here.

How do you guys handle this situation?

1. Inform the teams of the appeal process? (like above)

2. Ignore the yelling, play stands... "let's move on" (after a minute or two)

3. As PU jump in and meet with BU to correct the play without an official appeal by coachcaptain? (I would not like this as an option, credibility of BU at stake IMO)

4. Mention the appeal process during pre-game conference? (have never heard of this but...)

The BU and me did not have a hand signal to let him know that I had "information" that he might want to hear... we will next time.

1) This isn't an appeal.

2) There's no requirement that it (or an appeal) be made by the coach or captain.

3) If the BU asks for help, and you have it, give it.

[kwiggie]

Let me clear somthing up, and add some detail that I left out in the OP;

The BU has not asked for help at this point. Seeing this the visiting team's players focus all the attention to me with their asking for an appeal. I state "That was not my call guys", they respond with "Well he isn't listening to us, we have been asking for the appeal", this is when I made the "appeals must come from a captain or coach". My gut knotted up when I heard the "well in that case, uh ya... I would like to ask for an appeal then" come from the B3 line.

Now we huddle and correct the call since the visiting coach has officially asked for the appeal and BU wants my input.

[Mr Umpire]

Let me clear somthing up, and add some detail that I left out in the OP;

The BU has not asked for help at this point. Seeing this the visiting team's players focus all the attention to me with their asking for an appeal. I state "That was not my call guys", they respond with "Well he isn't listening to us, we have been asking for the appeal", this is when I made the "appeals must come from a captain or coach". My gut knotted up when I heard the "well in that case, uh ya... I would like to ask for an appeal then" come from the B3 line.

Now we huddle and correct the call since the visiting coach has officially asked for the appeal and BU wants my input.

Well, as I stated before, I am not going to tell them how to do their job. Ignore the bench. If I don't hear "Time" from the HC, then play on. He can ask me after the game of how to handle it. Until then, I will not tell him. Some umpires like to give the spill about "Go to the umpire who made the call and talk to him" at the plate meeting. I don't simply b/c that is telling them how to do their job. And, I stay away from that area.

[kwiggie]

2) There's no requirement that it (or an appeal) be made by the coach or captain.

10.1.4; the coach or captain may ask that the correct ruling be made.

Am I missing somthing?

[jjb]

OK, let's get our terminology straight:

There is no such animal as an "appeal" of a judgement call. Doesn't exist, OK?

"Appeals", exist only for missed bases, improper tag-ups, etc. There's a whole bunch of rules detailing how and when to perform a proper appeal of these plays.

Fair/foul, out/safes, even check swings are not "appeals", because you're not allowed to appeal these judgement calls to another umpire.

Now, if an umpire, after making a judgement call, feels he needs more information in order to make sure he got it right, MAY go to his partner, in order to get the information. That's his perogative, and nobody can force him to do so. If he does go to his partner, he can use that information to keep his call, or overturn it. His partner has no say in his final decision. He just provides the information.

Now, a smart coach may go to the umpire that made the call, and ask him to go his partner for help. That's the proper way.

The improper way is to go to the other umpire, and ask "Hey, Blue, can I appeal that?" Personally, if the guy's been a tool all afternoon, I'll reply "Nope", and let it go. If he's been a decent guy, I'll reply, "Not to me, coach", and see if he figures it out.

Edited July 22, 2009 by jjb
clarification

[BrianC14]

Well, as I stated before, I am not going to tell them how to do their job. Ignore the bench. If I don't hear "Time" from the HC, then play on. He can ask me after the game of how to handle it. Until then, I will not tell him. Some umpires like to give the spill about "Go to the umpire who made the call and talk to him" at the plate meeting. I don't simply b/c that is telling them how to do their job. And, I stay away from that area.

Most assuredly, you do not "ignore the bench".

That BS needs to be shut down before anything else happens. B)

A 'stop sign' hand signal and "That's enough!" directive should take care of the bench. If it doesn't then you start picking a player(s) for an ejection.

After that, you can simply ask the head coach, (since when do team captains get a voice?) what he wants... if there's nothing forthcoming that makes sense, then it's time to move on. As previous posters have said, it isn't your job as an umpire to walk a coach through the rulebook.

There is no "process" for an appeal in FED. Coaches that know this simply let the nearest (calling) umpire know what they're doing, and they do it. The business of getting the pitcher back on the mound, "OK, Johnny, now throw the ball over to Timmy.... Timmy, you catch the ball and step on the base" is nonsense.

Edited July 22, 2009 by BrianC14

[noumpere]

10.1.4; the coach or captain may ask that the correct ruling be made.

Am I missing somthing?

1) You're missing that 10.1.4 deals with "Use of Video by Umpires"

2) You're also missing that the statement you quoted from 10-1-4 doesn't apply to the OP.

3) Anyone can request "get help on that." Whether an umpire chooses to do so depends on the standards in your area, the type of play, the type of umpire, etc. If you're going to go for help, go for help. Don't make the team jump through all sorts of (non-existant) hoops -- you'll just fan the flames.

[kwiggie]

1) You're missing that 10.1.4 deals with "Use of Video by Umpires"

2) You're also missing that the statement you quoted from 10-1-4 doesn't apply to the OP.

3) Anyone can request "get help on that." Whether an umpire chooses to do so depends on the standards in your area, the type of play, the type of umpire, etc. If you're going to go for help, go for help. Don't make the team jump through all sorts of (non-existant) hoops -- you'll just fan the flames.

Major Brain-Fart by me!

I realized this morning that I pulled the 10.1.4 "coachescaptains may ask..." quote out of my 2008 rules book.