Signaling Fair/Foul

[Umpete]

I have asked several umpires this question, but no one can give me an answer. I did a quick search here but found nothing. So, here's the question:

On a fly ball near the foul line which is caught by the fielder, I have seen umpires (mostly at the higher levels) signal fair or foul first, and then signal the out. I assume since they signal fair/foul, it must be important, but why is it?

[Guest]

In case something happens (namely, the fielder dropping the ball) that requires the ball to have been adjudged fair or foul.

In reality, an umpire should be signalling fair or foul as soon as the ball is touched, then determining catch / no catch status

[Fittske24]

I have asked several umpires this question, but no one can give me an answer. I did a quick search here but found nothing. So, here's the question:

On a fly ball near the foul line which is caught by the fielder, I have seen umpires (mostly at the higher levels) signal fair or foul first, and then signal the out. I assume since they signal fair/foul, it must be important, but why is it?

The Umpire divine order for judgment is:

1. Fair/Foul (If on or near a foul line)
2. Catch/no catch
3. Touches/Tags
4. Then everything else

Perfect example....

No Outs, runner at 3rd. Ball hit to RF near the foul line. F9 runs toward the line to make a catch. F9 dives near the line to make the catch (Lets assume the ball is over fair territory when F9 dives). F9 Makes the catch but the ball comes out of the glove when F9 hits the ground in foul territory. Make your call....

Now following your order of responsibility, your first decesion is fair/foul then catch no catch. As soon as the ball is first touched you should signal fair or foul. This will let the runner on 3rd know that it is now ok to TAG from 3rd because the ball has been touched and has been ruled fair. Also If the ball is dropped, no matter where it ends up, In this case foul territory, the ball was already ruled fair and the ball is still live.

[mtnump]

I have asked several umpires this question, but no one can give me an answer. I did a quick search here but found nothing. So, here's the question:

On a fly ball near the foul line which is caught by the fielder, I have seen umpires (mostly at the higher levels) signal fair or foul first, and then signal the out. I assume since they signal fair/foul, it must be important, but why is it?

The Umpire divine order for judgment is:

1. Fair/Foul (If on or near a foul line)
2. Catch/no catch
3. Touches/Tags
4. Then everything else

Perfect example....

No Outs, runner at 3rd. Ball hit to RF near the foul line. F9 runs toward the line to make a catch. F9 dives near the line to make the catch (Lets assume the ball is over fair territory when F9 dives). F9 Makes the catch but the ball comes out of the glove when F9 hits the ground in foul territory. Make your call....

Now following your order of responsibility, your first decesion is fair/foul then catch no catch. As soon as the ball is first touched you should signal fair or foul. This will let the runner on 3rd know that it is now ok to TAG from 3rd because the ball has been touched and has been ruled fair. Also If the ball is dropped, no matter where it ends up, In this case foul territory, the ball was already ruled fair and the ball is still live.

+1! Great explanation!!!:hi5:

[yawetag]

Now following your order of responsibility, your first decesion is fair/foul then catch no catch. As soon as the ball is first touched you should signal fair or foul. This will let the runner on 3rd know that it is now ok to TAG from 3rd because the ball has been touched and has been ruled fair. Also If the ball is dropped, no matter where it ends up, In this case foul territory, the ball was already ruled fair and the ball is still live.

I disagree with "as soon as." You need to pause and read the play before you throw your arms out. Even if you were watching the play correctly and made your decision as the ball was touched, it's going to take a small amount of time before you make the call.

Your fair/foul call isn't telling the runner when the ball is touched; it's simply giving the indication of the ball's status. If runners relied on us to tell them when a ball's touched, they're going to have a lot more close plays.

[Fittske24]

I disagree with "as soon as." You need to pause and read the play before you throw your arms out.

I am going to have to disagree here. It is imperative that the fair/foul decision should be made as soon as the ball becomes fair or foul. In my example the ball becomes fair as soon as the ball was touched. I do agree that P.R.R. should be used before making the catch/no catch call.

Even if you were watching the play correctly and made your decision as the ball was touched, it's going to take a small amount of time before you make the call.

Yes this is a true statement....as it relates to the catch/no catch. The fair/foul decision should be made first and as quickly as possible. Point of clarification: the use of voice should NOT be used if the fly ball "in the process of being caught" has been judged first touched over FOUL ground. ONLY a point mechanic should be use in this situation. If the ball is first touched over foul ground but the fielder does not secure the catch and the ball drops to the ground, then you can Signal "Foul" (with voice) and then point mechanic toward foul territory.

Your fair/foul call isn't telling the runner when the ball is touched; it's simply giving the indication of the ball's status. If runners relied on us to tell them when a ball's touched, they're going to have a lot more close plays.

True the fair/foul call does indicate the ball's status, but in my scenario, if you are judging fair foul properly, it does indicate when the FLY ball was touched by the fielder. In a tag up situation, it does signify that the umpire has ruled that the ball has been touched over fair or foul ground and there will be no confusion on the balls status should the ball be dropped. Now, does that mean the runner is watching for an Umpire's signal, I would say NO. I would also go out on a limb and say that 99% of players and coaches probably don't know what half of our mechanics are. For the 1% that do, they may gain a slight advantage by watching and knowing some of our mechanics.

[mstaylor]

I would also go out on a limb and say that 99% of players and coaches probably don't know what half of our mechanics are. For the 1% that do, they may gain a slight advantage by watching and knowing some of our mechanics.

The same could said about learning the rules too.

[kylejt]

Foul / uncaught ---> Signal Time, shout "Foul", signal foul

Fair / uncaught ---> Signal fair, with emphisis if it's close. If it's just off the turf when gloved, drop to a knee, smack the grass and signal and shout "no catch".

Foul / caught ---> Signal the out, shout "That's a catch!", then signal foul for the scorekeeper.

Fair / caught ----> Same as above, just point the other way for fair.

Signaling fair/foul on a caught ball is a courtesy to the scorekeeper.

[noumpere]

Foul / uncaught ---> Signal Time, shout "Foul", signal foul

Fair / uncaught ---> Signal fair, with emphisis if it's close. If it's just off the turf when gloved, drop to a knee, smack the grass and signal and shout "no catch".

Foul / caught ---> Signal the out, shout "That's a catch!", then signal foul for the scorekeeper.

Fair / caught ----> Same as above, just point the other way for fair.

Signaling fair/foul on a caught ball is a courtesy to the scorekeeper.

I sometimes or maybe even often dont get internet jokes, but this is one right?

On the first one, only need to do this if its close to the line. On the next one, this has to be a joke. On the next two you point as soon as the ball is touched and then signal the out and the voice is needed only if its a trouble catch below the knee or running

[NWA_UMP]

Foul / uncaught ---> Signal Time, shout "Foul", signal foul

Fair / uncaught ---> Signal fair, with emphisis if it's close. If it's just off the turf when gloved, drop to a knee, smack the grass and signal and shout "no catch".

Foul / caught ---> Signal the out, shout "That's a catch!", then signal foul for the scorekeeper.

Fair / caught ----> Same as above, just point the other way for fair.

Signaling fair/foul on a caught ball is a courtesy to the scorekeeper.

What he said....

[kylejt]

Signalling fair/foul, on a caught ball near the line, which what the original poster was asking about, is done only for the sake of the scorekeeper. No need to make that signal until after the throw comes in, if there are runners on base.

My answers were for upper levels, where you have the luxury of an umpire going down the line on a trouble ball. If you don't work games where you have three or more umpires, do what you gotta do.

If you do go out on ball down the line, and have an iffy catch/no catch, THAT would be your first priority. Then fair/foul. Then, perhaps, a mechanic on why the ball wasn't caught, if needed.

[Guest]

Signalling fair/foul, on a caught ball near the line, which what the original poster was asking about, is done only for the sake of the scorekeeper. No need to make that signal until after the throw comes in, if there are runners on base.

My answers were for upper levels, where you have the luxury of an umpire going down the line on a trouble ball. If you don't work games where you have three or more umpires, do what you gotta do.

If you do go out on ball down the line, and have an iffy catch/no catch, THAT would be your first priority. Then fair/foul. Then, perhaps, a mechanic on why the ball wasn't caught, if needed.

This is just absurd.

Fair / foul is first priority.

When the ball is touched, you should be signalling fair or foul. The fair / foul status is immediately determined at that point, but how do you know how long it will take to determine whether or not the ball is caught?

You are just asking for trouble if you signal C / NC, then F / F.

[yawetag]

Fair / foul is first priority.

+1. Fair/Foul, then catch/no catch

[kylejt]

Fellas, on a caught ball near the line, who cares if it's fair or foul? NOBODY (except the scorekeeper). It's an out. The catch is far more important than fair/foul on a catch near the line.

Signal the catch, then signal fair/foul for the scorekeeper.

I'm surprised this doesn't seam logical for y'all.

[TXUmp77]

Fair foul is first then catch no catch. Its the way they teach it at school and its the way it should be done. Fair or foul is for alot more than the scorekeeper its the status of the ball, kinda important.

[kylejt]

On a caught fly ball, who cares if it's fair, or not?

[Guest]

On a caught fly ball, who cares if it's fair, or not?

Everyone, when the fielder carries the ball from fair territory to foul territory, trips, and has the ball become dislodged.

According to your mechanics, you still won't have made a fair / foul signal yet.

[mstaylor]

On a caught fly ball, who cares if it's fair, or not?

Kyle, you are correct that it makes no difference on a caught ball, HOWEVER, you need to show F/F when touched, C/NC comes later. True, somtimes it may only be a second or two difference but sometimes it is harder. Always do it correctly and you won't mess up when it really counts.

[noumpere]

On a caught fly ball, who cares if it's fair, or not?

Kyle just my opinion but you need to give up on this everyone says the opposite. You are correct that noone cares if the ball is caught but you dont know if its caught until later and then its too late to call fair or foul. Well thats not exactly true you will still have to call fair or foul but it wont be as beleivable. To clarify the foul call on the initial touch is just a point with no verbal if the ball is dropped then come up with the hands and verbalise the foul call.

[kylejt]

On a caught fly ball, who cares if it's fair, or not?

Kyle just my opinion but you need to give up on this everyone says the opposite.

Okay.

[mstaylor]

On a caught fly ball, who cares if it's fair, or not?

Kyle just my opinion but you need to give up on this everyone says the opposite.

Okay.

That or change your moniker to Don Quiote. :yippie: