Looking for the Gerry Davis Stance Article

[cstenz]

I'm looking for the two documents that have been referred to regarding the Gerry Davis Stance. The web-link is broken, anyone have the articles that could be emailed to me?

Thanks!

[BrianC14]

I'm looking for the two documents that have been referred to regarding the Gerry Davis Stance. The web-link is broken, anyone have the articles that could be emailed to me?

Thanks!

I have them... but I have to ask "Why?"

You're not thinking about adopting this method, are you? :shakehead:

[okump96]

I have them... but I have to ask "Why?"

You're not thinking about adopting this method, are you?

i've been using this method for 4 or 5 years. didn't know anything about it being called the gerry davis stance until a few years ago. all i know is i found a plate stance that allowed me to lock in no matter how big or small my catchers are, and as a huge plus my legs and back don't hurt after my game.

Brian could you email me a copy of this please?

[cstenz]

I have them... but I have to ask "Why?"

You're not thinking about adopting this method, are you?

Not sure, but I would like to educate myself and would enjoy reading a written breakdown of the system. If you would be willing to email them to me, my email is cstens25@gmail.com

[zm1283]

Not sure, but I would like to educate myself and would enjoy reading a written breakdown of the system. If you would be willing to email them to me, my email is cstens25@gmail.com

I emailed it to you just now. Not sure if you already had it from someone or not.

[noumpere]

I have them... but I have to ask "Why?"

You're not thinking about adopting this method, are you?

Why would someone NOT think about adopting it?

[gixxershane]

Hahah, this is funny, well to me any way, but every thing I do I relate to my martial arts (kenpo) training.

The scissors stance is almost like a closed kneel stance.

The way I started out, I was in like a modified horse stance.

Now after observing the pro and college umps, I have noticed I have always set up in the "slot".

I now use a left neutral bow for right hand batters and a right neutral bow for left handed batters.

A neutral bow is what we kenpoists call a fighting stance.

Now keep in mind I do not put my hand "on guard" I just use the foot work part of the stance

Wonder if that will confuse anyone??? Lol

[MCLEOD36]

Gix....

I think I just pulled my groin......

Here it is boys.

http://www.softballauckland.org.nz/Umpires/Resource%20Materials/Working%20the%20plate%20-%20Part2.pdf

Darn Kiwis....outline it pretty well.

[mstaylor]

A nuetral bow makes perfect sense. In baseball parlance, a nuetral bow is a heel/toe stance. By the way, my sons learned in an AKKS school.

[BrianC14]

Why would someone NOT think about adopting it?

Well, because in very few words, it's "not good".

Work the slot.

Be happy.

[mstaylor]

You work the slot. You just move back and up, allowing as good a look, getting hit less and is easier on your knees. Sounds horrible to me. ;)

[MCLEOD36]

Plate Stance Specifics –The Davis Stance

Scott Ehret on Umpiring

About nine or 10 years ago, while headed home after a Gerry Davis Umpire Clinic, Gerry and I were talking about plate work. He’d just spent the weekend “in the cages” helping umpires develop or improve their plate stance, and quite a few needed a lot of help. The most common problem was movement during a pitch – the old “moving camera takes a blurred picture” cliché confirmed and repeated in three living dimensions.

“I started putting guys in their base stance,” he said. “Hands on knees, get set and lock in before the pitcher commits, and stay put until the ball reaches catcher. It worked so well I think I might try that stance in Spring Training.”

Now, if you’ve ever spent any time with Gerry you probably know two things about him: He’s very serious about umpiring and he loves a good practical joke. I knew from our conversation this “hands-on-knees” stance had been a great teaching tool during that weekend’s clinic, but I could not believe Gerry would completely alter his own stance in front of Major League players and managers. I didn’t KNOW I was being set up, but let’s just say I’ve been in too many places with too many umpires to show anyone my plate stance in a bar.

Fast forward a couple of months. Late March. Gerry was back in Wisconsin after his Spring Training work and everyone in Appleton was wondering how many more times that winter the snowplows would wake them up at four AM. On his first day back in the office Gerry was raving about his new stance.

“You’ve got to try this,” he said again and again. “You won’t believe how comfortable it is, let alone how well you see pitches!”

Sure, I thought: “One more round, then I gotta’ go!” But just in case he was serious I had to ask a few questions. Here’s the easiest plate stance lesson you’ll ever read.

• Put one foot directly behind the middle of the catcher. With a right handed batter it’s your right foot.

• Step into the slot by spreading your feet a bit more than shoulder width apart.

• Lean forward slightly and place your hands on your knees. It’s the same stance you’re probably using on the bases with a runner on.

• Watch the pitcher. As he commits to the batter drop your rear end a couple of inches so your line of sight is horizontal. This takes stress off the muscles in the back of your neck. You’re now locked in.

• See the ball at the pitcher’s release point and stay locked in until after the ball reaches the catcher. Move only your eyes and try to keep the ball near the center of your field of vision.

Frankly, I still was not quite convinced. Seeing is believing and I had not seen a thing. Loud laughter and predictable wisecracks lingered at the edge of my imagination. Then Gerry left for opening day and friends started calling, asking me about Gerry’s new plate stance. After 10 or 12 calls I had a chance to watch one of his plate games on television. There he was, hands on knees …

A few days later I had a non-conference double header with two teams I knew pretty well and a partner I’d never met. I figured the partner wouldn’t know if I was doing something different and I knew the teams would never notice. Perfect chance to try this new stance. At least for an inning.

It took about four batters for me to realize how easy it was. Each pitch looked big as a beach ball coming toward the plate. Outside corner? No problem. Low zone? Easy. My biggest difficulty was patience – I saw the ball so well that after a couple of innings my timing started getting quick. Slow down! See the pitch all the way to the glove! Okay, that’s fixed.

We’ve spent months talking about the five fundamentals of a great plate stance. They’ve never been easier to establish or master.

• Head height. It’s automatic when you put your hands on your knees. Keep your elbows straight and, unless your arms grow during the game, your head height will be consistent for nine innings or 19.

• Location. One foot centered on the catcher, feet spread a bit more than shoulder width. You’re in the slot! If the catcher and batter squeeze you, just adjust up a bit – but only if you have to. With this head height it’s rarely necessary.

• Balance. Already there.

• Comfort. Even better than balance. In fact, there’s almost NO FATIGUE! Face it. How often are you tired after working the bases? Now you’re in the same stance, just standing behind the plate!

• Lock-in mechanism. Put your hands on your knees and drop your rear a couple of inches. You’re set; you’re stable; there’s no place to go.

If there is a drawback it lies in the fact that your forearms feel exposed. They are. You will get hit. I do, but no worse and no more often than when I used other stances. The good news is that when I have a bruise I still get the pitches right.

Almost a decade after that Gerry Davis clinic, whether you call it the “Davis Stance” or the “Lock Box” or the “Hands on Knees Stance,” umpires across the country and around the world are using it at every level of baseball – and softball! If you haven’t at least tried it you’re falling behind the curve. Give the Davis Stance one game and if you don’t like it go back to what you’ve been doing.

Just don’t go there when you’re in a bar – you may wind up buying a very expensive round of drinks.

[MCLEOD36]

that was emailed to me tonight.

[BrianC14]

You work the slot. You just move back and up, allowing as good a look, getting hit less and is easier on your knees. Sounds horrible to me.

Actually, moving "up and back" is what caused a great many umpires to get hit with foul balls.

Staying in the slot helps to avoid that problem.

Moving up & back is fine if you're squeezed out by a catcher who moves to the inside and a batter who crowds the plate, but it's not an every pitch place you want to be.

[BrianC14]

• Put one foot directly behind the middle of the catcher. With a right handed batter it’s your right foot.

• Step into the slot by spreading your feet a bit more than shoulder width apart.

• Lean forward slightly and place your hands on your knees. It’s the same stance you’re probably using on the bases with a runner on.

But you see - that description - however early it might have been - is not what's being portrayed as "up and back" - it's a version of the old box stance, but it's still "working the slot".

;)

[mstaylor]

It is basically a box stance but to do it properly you move back and up. It is why it is easier on your legs, you aren't dropping as far into your stance. It is an accepted stance that many have gone to. I personally use a scissor stance but I see nothing wrong with the Davis stance.

What is your objection? Most that I talked to that use the GD stance say they get hit very little.

[BrianC14]

It is basically a box stance but to do it properly you move back and up. It is why it is easier on your legs, you aren't dropping as far into your stance. It is an accepted stance that many have gone to. I personally use a scissor stance but I see nothing wrong with the Davis stance.

What is your objection? Most that I talked to that use the GD stance say they get hit very little.

I work the slot, and have hands on knees.

But what's being passed as the "Gerry Davis stance" is not actually working the slot.

Look at the articles these guys are asking for and you'll see.... working "up and back" is not being in the slot - it's being well back from the catcher, and right in line with most foul balls that come straight back.

[gixxershane]

Box (Gerry Davis) stance = Horse stance, minus the hand position

The horse stance is a little more technical than this as far as foot position and where your knees are in relation to your feet, but that isn't too important in the baseball world, just the dojo :D

[noumpere]

But what's being passed as the "Gerry Davis stance" is not actually working the slot.

Then you're being passed bad information. Your nose is still on (or just inside) the inside corner of the plate -- even if you move "up and back."

And, just by the physics of it, the farther back you are, the less you'll be hit (if you stay in the same line with the plate).

[cstenz]

Thanks to Zac (zm1283) for sending me the two documents I had asked for, I really appreciate it. I guess I didn't realize that thinking of making a change in my mechanics would be like trading Babe Ruth....ha,ha.

[mstaylor]

Some guys are very intense about certain things in umpiring. I talk a more relaxed view of mechanics. I know the right way to do things and I teach them. However, there are things that are a personal preference and your plate stance is one, carrying an indicator is another. When I do cage work, unless an umpire is completely wrong I will work with what he uses and fix glaring problems. If he is working heel/toe, box or GD, I will not change it. I will improve and refine, but not completely change. There are guys that use some hybrid stance that isn't good, will over fatique or cause inconsistancy. This I will change, but I really don't care what stance they choose if they can call balls and strikes.

Edited July 10, 2009 by mstaylor

[bassfam11]

but I really don't care what stance they choose if they can call balls and strikes.

AMEN

:HD:

[Kevin Finnerty]

I guess you can call mine a modified GD. I'm in the slot; I'm not that far back; I have my feet quite a bit wider than shoulder width; I have my hands just above the knees with my thumbs in; I am locked in every time. It's GD, but a little wider stance and a little closer to the catcher. The only extra shots I take are lower leg or foot shots, which you don't even feel (if you have good gear). I also get one or two wrist shots a year, which hurt, but so far, no breaks.

I love the stance. It's the only one I've ever tried that is consistent no matter who's catching (or how they're catching). And, as was already illuminated, it minimizes leg strain. It also minimizes back strain. It's actually almost restful, physically.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Why would someone NOT think about adopting it?

Because the scissors rule

Well, because in very few words, it's "not good".

Work the slot.

Be happy.

Thank you!

You work the slot. You just move back and up, allowing as good a look, getting hit less and is easier on your knees. Sounds horrible to me.

I found that I got hit just as much, if not more, in the GD. Now I know that GD doesn't stand for Gerry Davis!

Actually, moving "up and back" is what caused a great many umpires to get hit with foul balls.

Staying in the slot helps to avoid that problem.

Amen, brother.

I personally use a scissor stance but I see nothing wrong with the Davis stance.

Then why don't you use it?

What is your objection? Most that I talked to that use the GD stance say they get hit very little.

Most, but not all apparently!

Then you're being passed bad information. Your nose is still on (or just inside) the inside corner of the plate -- even if you move "up and back."

And, just by the physics of it, the farther back you are, the less you'll be hit (if you stay in the same line with the plate).

Uh, yeah, you're still on the inside corner, but you ain't in the slot anymore. The slot is just behind the catcher's head, between the catcher and batter, not way back in the GD stance. And I know what physics book you found your reasoning in, but the ball can just as easily find you in either position. You know where I got hit all the time in the GD? In the friggin' stomach, of all places. Not the chest protector, not the shins, in the darn stomach!!! Got a little tired of that, and back to the scissors I ran lickety-split.:wave:

[mstaylor]

I use the scissors because of my knees. Any other stance hurts me, box, heel/toe or GD. Also, any stance you use you will get hit, there's no way around it. It seems to me from my discussions GD stance guys feel they get hit less. I do know a guy that is getting over a concussion from a mask hit while in the GD stance. The reason they get hit less is most fouls go by their right side or is in the dirt before it gets to them.

My point has always been, the best stance is the one that is comfortable for you and allows you to see balls and strikes best.