Looking for the Gerry Davis Stance Article

[SanDiegoSteve]

I use the scissors because of my knees. Any other stance hurts me, box, heel/toe or GD. Also, any stance you use you will get hit, there's no way around it. It seems to me from my discussions GD stance guys feel they get hit less. I do know a guy that is getting over a concussion from a mask hit while in the GD stance. The reason they get hit less is most fouls go by their right side or is in the dirt before it gets to them.

My point has always been, the best stance is the one that is comfortable for you and allows you to see balls and strikes best.

I prefer the scissors because I have a really bad back due to a bad car crash in 1981, and it's the most comfortable for my back. Plus, I don't get hit in the stomach!:WTF

[SanDiegoSteve]

If anyone is watching the Cubs/Cardinals game right now, Lance Barksdale, the PU, is using a very relaxed, comfortable looking scissors stance, nearly identical to my stance. In fact, his stance, mechanics and mannerisms are nearly identical to mine. He is not straining his neck, which is such a myth, nor is he holding an uncomfortable position. He is only in the stance for a short period, then he just has to stand up. No deep knee bends, no strain on the back, and he's locked in as good as anyone using the GD could possibly be.

[Kevin Finnerty]

If anyone is watching the Cubs/Cardinals game right now, Lance Barksdale, the PU, is using a very relaxed, comfortable looking scissors stance, nearly identical to my stance. In fact, his stance, mechanics and mannerisms are nearly identical to mine. He is not straining his neck, which is such a myth, nor is he holding an uncomfortable position. He is only in the stance for a short period, then he just has to stand up. No deep knee bends, no strain on the back, and he's locked in as good as anyone using the GD could possibly be.

Everything was cool until that last part. You can't be locked in better than you are in a GD stance.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Everything was cool until that last part. You can't be locked in better than you are in a GD stance.

I didn't say better, I said as good. Big difference. I didn't insult your precious stance, now... I'm just yankin' your chain, Lar.:spit:

[mstaylor]

When you are a very experienced scissor guy like Steve and I, you are very stable. It is the least stable of all the stances when you first start using it but it is great once you are proficient with it. It does require you to go down later than other stances but I don't see it as a problem.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I didn't say better, I said as good. Big difference. I didn't insult your precious stance, now... I'm just yankin' your chain, Lar.

After reading it again, you did say "as good." But your emphatic tone made it seem like you said "better."

My bad. :shrug:

[alex7]

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6018225

why the slot rules

[JamesC]

WOW! I just watched that video after reading the talk about the stances. I actually watched this game in real time and seen this happen, but didn't think anything about the stance of the umpire. After watching this video again on here, I cannot see why anyone would want to use that stance and not work the slot. When I first started out I had horrible mechanics and got hit all that time (however, I was only 13 and didn't really know much about what I was doing) and just thought it was one of the things that came along with the job. Boy am I glad I learned about working the slot! Probably took 10-15 less foul balls off the face/chest a year on average in the slot!

[Umpire in Chief]

The problem here is he is on the far side of the catcher. This is a huge danger zone for umpires. Granted Santos is squeezing the hell out of him and looking at the attached picture you can see Marsh's head is still lined up on the inside corner. This is where you have to go up and back. If you can't get the low inside pitch then that's the catcher's problem.

It doesn't appear he is in the traditional GD stance because he doesn't look that far back. But yes, this it a great example of why we work the slot.

[mstaylor]

We have a local guy in my group that has a tendency to work the kill zone, then complain he gets hit a lot. He is otherwise an excellent umpire. He got wacked a couple of years ago and has since moved more behind the catcher. He works D1, including confernce series, and is a pro grad. He knows what he is doing but in this one thing he won't listen.

[NWA_UMP]

He is getting squeezed like hell but it looks as if he is leaning out over the plate to get the look he needs. Back and up would help....but he is still going to get blocked out of the whole view he is looking for....I don't know how to avoid some of the situations we are put in...scissors would not help in this case...IMHO.

[mstaylor]

Move back and up, if you miss the down pitch tell the catcher you can't call what you can't see.

[zm1283]

This is not a reason not to use the Davis stance/system in my opinion. You can get drilled working the slot or being in the locked box.

[alex7]

This is the main reason not to use the Davis stance/system in my opinion.

fixed. Umpire takes up less area behind hitting zone = umpire gets hit less.

How about this Matt Kemp kid huh? Looking like he'll become a .300/30-30 guy at CF. HOF numbers at that position.

Edited August 12, 2009 by alex7

[zm1283]

fixed. Umpire takes up less area behind hitting zone = umpire gets hit less.

How about this Matt Kemp kid huh? Looking like he'll become a .300/30-30 guy at CF. HOF numbers at that position.

How exactly do you take up less area? Do you somehow contract yourself? Shape shifting?

[Ump Rube]

How exactly do you take up less area? Do you somehow contract yourself? Shape shifting?

It has to do with the "degrees" of an area that you cover (the inverse of the reason goalies move out when defending 1-on-1).

Let's say the area behind the hitting zone is 90*. At 2.5' wide, and only 3' back you may take up 60* and only leave 30* for the ball to escape. But at 6' back you may only take up 30*, leaving 60* for the ball to escape.

That is the best explanation, that I can give i with words. I hope that maybe helps.

[BrianC14]

The problem here is he is on the far side of the catcher. This is a huge danger zone for umpires. Granted Santos is squeezing the hell out of him and looking at the attached picture you can see Marsh's head is still lined up on the inside corner. This is where you have to go up and back. If you can't get the low inside pitch then that's the catcher's problem.

It doesn't appear he is in the traditional GD stance because he doesn't look that far back. But yes, this it a great example of why we work the slot.

Wow. Going back to the OP, perhaps this is one reason why the GD System can't be found readily anymore.

Guys, I don't care how far "back" you might get - 3 feet? So what? That ball was directed straight back. 2 feet, or 2.5 feet more isn't going to help when a 95+ (and the ball comes off the bat faster, understand) if you're right in the way of it - or in the "kill zone" as Warren so aptly put it.

I realize that he's being squeezed.... that won't be the case on every pitch, and so he's moved up and maybe a bit back - buy WHY would you want to be in that same "up and back" spot on EVERY PITCH? It's nuts.

By the way, I checked the box scores... Marvin Hudson's crew (of which Marsh is a part) had Monday off, then went to Seattle to work the series against the ChiSox... Marsh has been replaced by Casey Moser for the time being.

In the Pads/Mets game when Marsh was removed, Hudson came in from 2B to work the dish. (Normal, given that they were in the 5th inning) and of course they finished working 3 man.

Edited August 12, 2009 by BrianC14

[SanDiegoSteve]

By the way, I checked the box scores... Marvin Hudson's crew (of which Marsh is a part) had Monday off, then went to Seattle to work the series against the ChiSox... Marsh has been replaced by Casey Moser for the time being.

In the Pads/Mets game when Marsh was removed, Hudson came in from 2B to work the dish. (Normal, given that they were in the 5th inning) and of course they finished working 3 man.

Hudson recently joined this crew, and Marsh is the Crew Chief. Hudson used to be in John Hirschbeck's crew.

One reason they used Hudson instead of Barksdale is because Barksdale and the Padres fans and players weren't seeing eye-to-eye because of the night before, and Angel Hernandez was scheduled to work the first game of the Mariners/Sox series.

[BrianC14]

Hudson recently joined this crew, and Marsh is the Crew Chief. Hudson used to be in John Hirschbeck's crew.

One reason they used Hudson instead of Barksdale is because Barksdale and the Padres fans and players weren't seeing eye-to-eye because of the night before, and Angel Hernandez was scheduled to work the first game of the Mariners/Sox series.

Geez, I had that pretty well screwed up, didn't I?

But it is "normal" for U2 to come in and take the dish in this situation; that way, the usual rotation is maintained as much as possible; i.e., it leaves the U1 umpire available for tomorrow, and U3 has just worked the day before, so it falls to U2.

As of Wednesday, Marsh still hadn't returned, though...

Edited August 25, 2009 by BrianC14
Great googley-moogley.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Geez, I had that pretty well screwed up, didn't I?

But it is "normal" for U3 to come in and take the dish in this situation; that way, the usual rotation is maintained as much as possible; i.e., it leaves the U1 umpire available for tomorrow, and U4 has just worked the day before, so it falls to U3.

As of Wednesday, Marsh still hadn't returned, though...

Now you have the positions all screwed up like Hogan's goat.

U2 normally works the plate, as U3 had the dish the day before, and U1 has it the next day. The PU or UIC, if you prefer, has a sore jaw.:wave:

[BrianC14]

Now you have the positions all screwed up like Hogan's goat.

U2 normally works the plate, as U3 had the dish the day before, and U1 has it the next day. The PU or UIC, if you prefer, has a sore jaw.

Fixed it.

Time for a 'tini. Oy.:nod:

[SanDiegoSteve]

Fixed it.

Time for a 'tini. Oy.

Time for a double 'tini. You forgot to change U4 (what's a U4?) to U3, as in 3rd base umpire.:shakehead:

[BrianC14]

Time for a double 'tini. You forgot to change U4 (what's a U4?) to U3, as in 3rd base umpire.

U4. That's the guy that's out with an injury. :WTF