Step off mound, throw to plate

[IHSAUmp08]

From the, "Never seen that before" category. I had a situation in a 11 year old game yesterday. Runner on 3rd, team A is up by 6-7 runs. Runner goes about half-way down the line after the pitcher comes set. The B teams coach screams, "Step off, Step off". Pitcher steps off quickly and throws to the plate, thinking the runner is stealing. R1 at 3rd returns to the base. The batter swings and fouls the ball off (once again, these were 11 year olds). I was completely surprised. I didn't know what to do. I called it a dead ball, no pitch because the pitcher was clearly off the rubber with his back foot. Three questions here: 1. Was I right to call it a dead ball? 2. What if the batter put the ball in play? 3. What is the correct call here? I need help guys! Thanks!!!

[Guest]

OBR: INT

<2 out: R3 out (Batter hindering play by a fielder at home. 7.09c)

2 out: Batter out

Ball is dead as soon as you deem the interference has prevented the potential for the defense to record an out on the original play (in this instance, the ball sailing off after being hit would probably be a good time to call time and "thats INT")

I know you are going to say "but R3 retreated to 3B"

Well, what if the batter swung and missed, and the catcher missed the ball, and R3 scored as a result? Bottom line is the batter, because the pitcher disengaged, has no right swinging at the thfrow.

If the ball was a "fair ball" (for the purpose of landing between the chalk lines), doesn't matter - revert to above.

[gayump]

OBR: INT

<2 out: R3 out (Batter hindering play by a fielder at home. 7.09c)

2 out: Batter out

Ball is dead as soon as you deem the interference has prevented the potential for the defense to record an out on the original play (in this instance, the ball sailing off after being hit would probably be a good time to call time and "thats INT")

I know you are going to say "but R3 retreated to 3B"

Well, what if the batter swung and missed, and the catcher missed the ball, and R3 scored as a result? Bottom line is the batter, because the pitcher disengaged, has no right swinging at the pitch.

If the ball was a "fair ball" (for the purpose of landing between the chalk lines), doesn't matter - revert to above.

I'm going to play devil's advocate.

In order for there to be a play you need a ball and a runner. With the runner going back to third, you don't have a runner at the plate, therefore no play, right? No Play, no interference. Now if the runner broke for the plate and the OP happened then you would have INT because then you have a ball and a runner, therefore you have a play. In your What if scenario, you have a runner who advances and ball, therefore based on the action, you could have INT.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

[carolinablue]

How do you know there isn't a play, the batter fouled the ball off. How do we know F2 wouldn't have caught the ball and threw R3 out returning to 3B.

[gayump]

How do you know there isn't a play, the batter fouled the ball off. How do we know F2 wouldn't have caught the ball and threw R3 out returning to 3B.

"R1 at 3rd returns to the base. The batter swings and fouls the ball off"

Here it is implied that the Runner is standing on the base before the swing.

[carolinablue]

I still think you have to call INT. It's got to be something and the only other thing I can think of if it's not INT. would be an illegal pitch and I don't think that's right. He wasn't pitching he was attempting to make a play he thought was about to happen.

[yawetag]

Bottom line is the batter, because the pitcher disengaged, has no right swinging at the pitch.

It's not a pitch. It's a throw. Batters have no right swinging at throws.

[Guest]

Bottom line is the batter, because the pitcher disengaged, has no right swinging at the pitch.

It's not a pitch. It's a throw. Batters have no right swinging at throws.

Good catch and TY. Edited as necessary

[mstaylor]

If the runner was halfway down the line, I doubt seriously he got back before the ball got to the plate. Call the interference, call the runner out, probably dump his manager. If the batter doesn't swing, balk anybody?

[mazzamouth]

What about a balk for throwing to an Unoccupied base? If R1 ( for example) starts to run to 2nd but stops ( and in umpire judgment) goes back but the pitcher throws to 2nd it can be called a back for throwing to an Unoccupied base.. ( once again this is umpire judgment as too whether or not the runner was actually attempting to advance).

So if the umpire thinks the runner was not advancing. call the balk.. so no you advance R3 and batter stays at bat.

But if not then you interference 6.06c... less than 2 outs runner is out, if not the batter is out.

[noumpere]

How do you know there isn't a play, the batter fouled the ball off. How do we know F2 wouldn't have caught the ball and threw R3 out returning to 3B.

"R1 at 3rd returns to the base. The batter swings and fouls the ball off"

Here it is implied that the Runner is standing on the base before the swing.

It was either a play and thus batters interference or it wasnt a play in which case it was a balk. The umpire needs to decide which is which and inforce the correct penalty,

[mazzamouth]

, balk anybody?

It can be.. look at my last post..LOL

[UmpJM]

As described, there is no balk here.

The pitcher legally disengaged and made a throw to the catcher. That ain't a balk.

JM

[Mr Umpire]

As described, there is no balk here.

The pitcher legally disengaged and made a throw to the catcher. That ain't a balk.

JM

I was wondering the same thing. Where did a balk come from? He legally disengaged.

Now, if the runner is retreating when the contact is made, he cannot be called out b/c he was not trying to score when the INT occurred. Batter is out only. And, the play is the fact that F2 may have a play at 3B since the runner was halfway. If he was much closer to 3B, then call "Time" and nothing else. But, there was a potential play at 3B if he was half way.

[carolinablue]

You could rule it an illegal pitch ( a pitch thrown when not in contact ) which would be a balk with runners on, but as I mentioned before, I don't think so.

Can you just call time here and have nothing ? The batter hit a thrown ball.

[JaxRolo]

As described, there is no balk here.

The pitcher legally disengaged and made a throw to the catcher. That ain't a balk.

JM

Good point!!! I don't think an illegal pitch applies here either.

[mstaylor]

, balk anybody?

It can be.. look at my last post..LOL

Great minds think alike.

As to the others:

Yes, he legally disengaged but look at 8.05h.

[dddunn3d]

, balk anybody?

It can be.. look at my last post..LOL

Great minds think alike.

As to the others:

Yes, he legally disengaged but look at 8.05h.

Interference has to do with the attempt to make a play, not the play itself. We really should say "No attempt, no interference."

In the OP, the throw home was the attempt to retire R3. Of course there was no play because the batter hit the throw.

RULE 2.00 Interference

(a) Offensive interference is an act by the team at bat which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play.

[carolinablue]

, balk anybody?

It can be.. look at my last post..LOL

Great minds think alike.

As to the others:

Yes, he legally disengaged but look at 8.05h.

,

If the runner was half way down the line, then he was attempting to make a play IMO, No unecessary delay.

[mstaylor]

The balk question is if the batter doesn't swing at it. At that point you have decide if the runner really was trying to come home, then all is good, or he was only making a hard secondary, balk.

[carolinablue]

Are you calling the balk based on an illegal pitch or unecessary delay because he was disengaged ? That is, if he doesn't swing at it.

[Rich Ives]

How do you know there isn't a play, the batter fouled the ball off. How do we know F2 wouldn't have caught the ball and threw R3 out returning to 3B.

"R1 at 3rd returns to the base. The batter swings and fouls the ball off"

Here it is implied that the Runner is standing on the base before the swing.

It was either a play and thus batters interference or it wasnt a play in which case it was a balk. The umpire needs to decide which is which and inforce the correct penalty,

He legally stepped off.

Going half way is not a feint in any rational mind.

No balk.

[UmpJM]

The balk question is if the batter doesn't swing at it. At that point you have decide if the runner really was trying to come home, then all is good, or he was only making a hard secondary, balk.

Michael,

There is absolutely no reason to judge whether or not the runner was "really" attempting to go home or not. The pitcher LEGALLY DISENGAGED. Now he's an infielder.

There is nothing in the OP that suggests the pitcher violated 8.05(h). For you to balk him for "simulating a pitching motion" he would have to actually make it look like he re-engaged the rubber and was delivering a pitch. That's not what happened here.

I would probably treat the OP as "interference without a play" - kill it and keep the runners where they were.

JM

[IHSAUmp08]

You guys made some good points (most of you guys, lol). Thanks to all for the help. I knew all along it wasn't a balk. I should've called the INT. and called the batter out. None of the coaches said anything and probably didn't know that the patter had committed INT. As I said, these were 11 year olds and team B was down by 7 runs. I used some disscession. I didn't want to make a big scene. This was a tournament game and there was a time limit for starting another inning. It didn't effect the outcome, or change the game in any way. Just needed to put it out there in case it ever comes up again. I needed to know what the ruling is. Thanks to all who replied!

[carolinablue]

The balk question is if the batter doesn't swing at it. At that point you have decide if the runner really was trying to come home, then all is good, or he was only making a hard secondary, balk.

Michael,

There is absolutely no reason to judge whether or not the runner was "really" attempting to go home or not. The pitcher LEGALLY DISENGAGED. Now he's an infielder.

There is nothing in the OP that suggests the pitcher violated 8.05(h). For you to balk him for "simulating a pitching motion" he would have to actually make it look like he re-engaged the rubber and was delivering a pitch. That's not what happened here.

I would probably treat the OP as "interference without a play" - kill it and keep the runners where they were.

JM

JM, I agree with you but I think 8.05(h) is talking about balking a pitcher for delaying the game unecessarily.