RBIbaseball

It became evident that I knew the answer to my own question. My "great idea" response was both sarcastic and genuine at the same time (if that's possible?). Sometimes I get caught up and have to unturn every stone, disprove every fallacy, and ask stupid questions to confirm what I think I know doesn't have any holes. I have to challenge my understanding, albeit this time unnecessarily in hind sight. I appreciate your patience and understanding.

I don't think I would consider F5 throw to 1B, nor F3 scoop and hold as an appeal. In my judgement all actions appeared as though they were all on the same page (trying to get B/R out at 1B because they thought it hit the ground). I would need F3 to do something or say something to make it apparent he was appealing R1.

let me ask it a different way If you're squared around to bunt, and you pull the bat back, but the ball still hits the bat (maybe the barrel, not the knob - bad example) as it's being pulled back At that point it is judgement on whether you were still attempting to strike at the ball with a bunt, right? If a kid pulls back a little too slow and it hits off the end of the bat, and you say "foul ball" - "no bunt attempt"... I could see that being a very upset defensive coach. But in the end, it's judgement on whether the batter was trying to not make contact or whether that was part of the bunt attempt

great idea

NHFS (although I don't think it changes with ruleset) Batter squares around to bunt with 2 strikes Batter clearly pulls back bunt, but inside pitch hits knob and goes foul My thought is that it's not longer a bunt attempt, so no out, correct?

You're causing the OP to get all scrambled. If y'all could just resist making puns for a minute it would be over, easy.

Okay, thanks for the explanation guys. Yes, I was pretty sure I'm not entertaining those appeals, but I went down this weird rabbit hole in my head and had to ask. Like on a HR, can the defense appeal right after the B/R misses a base? ... or do they have to let them come all the way around What about 2 seconds after he misses home.... or do we give the offense time to correct (ie runner clearly abandons effort or enters dugout) I couldn't find anything definitive in the rule book for this, but rather just during a dead ball. Maybe I missed it.

I was really looking forward to getting to this camp, but unfortunately for me it's about the only weekend that is non-negotiable schedule wise. Are there other camps that offer an equivalent experience/ instruction level this fall? I always got next year I suppose.

NFHS deal ball appeal Is there an appropriate time to entertain an appeal ? Do we have to wait for awards, etc. Example to illustrate what I'm trying to ask: Runner sliding into third on a throw that gets by F5 and runs out of play. Runner overslid on a headfirst slide and clearly missed the base but see the ball go out of play. Umpire kills play and awards home. Runner stands up and a) before he gets a chance to correct his touch of 3B, defense instantly verbally appeals the missed base after the award was given b) runs half way to home before he hears his base coach yelling to retouch 3B and turns around to touch, and subsequently the defense appeals the missed base before he gets back to touch Do we outs here? Or do we give the runner a second to figure out his life since the ball went out of play.

I could be wrong, but I swear multiple folks in this this thread argued the receiving of the ball IS the play... And that a throwing play to 1B is not required.

@Velho So #1 ranking basically means he was chosen to go to state finals. It's not really about him being #1 per se, it's more about giving you guys the context and emphasizing that he is considered to be a top umpire in my region and is obviously well respected by the assignor. He's been in the region for over 15 years. Ya, I read the room after the last comment and didn't keep pushing it. I'm very much an onion peeler, a devil's advocate... I love to ask questions and dig into the what if's. There were a few folks that mentioned how this SHOULD be called in every situation with zero exceptions. I was just giving another example on a situation where by their interpretation it SHOULD have been called because the criteria was met ... I thought this weird situation where, I guess, they would have called it... just coincidence it happened within a few days of the thread. @The Man in Blue Growing up in the Army I had a really hard time, because I would ask questions to my Sergeants to understand WHY they are making a decision... to learn... so that when I'm in their position I can also make good decisions, etc. Suffice it to say, more than a few of my leader's took it as disrespect and talking back... Just gotta learn who is open to being peeled and who isn't.

So had a play yesterday. NHFS varsity game. no outs, R1 - I'm BU Slow roller toward F4 but he just waited on it. Team is telling F4 to go to 1B but he tries for force out at 2B. F6 is stretched off 2B toward F4 / right field. R1 runs THROUGH 2B as if he was running through 1B on a infield ground ball. I had him out on a bang/bang play. F6 chases down R1 and tags him probably because his brain short circuited from the baserunning technique (or lack there of). By rule, some of you have this as FPSR and no question has to be 2 outs. The B/R was fast and only a couple steps away from 1B. F6 never considered turning a double play, nor was there a chance at it. He was stretched toward RF corner to receive the ball. I asked my PU (who happened to be the #1 ranked umpire in my region the last two years). He acted like I was crazy for even bringing it up. He said don't go looking for calls - there was no interference and he wasn't in the way of anything. I just reiterated that "by rule they have to veer or slide directly into the base or it's FPSR". He got short and told me, no, stop reaching... I actually think I lost credibility in his eyes for even mentioning it. (that's a whole other issue, but it supports my point that in my region, a call like this wouldn't be supported).

When the hat starts flying, it's all I can see.

His bat moved like 6", your partner is in C on a RHB, and the team has tried to appeal every twitch of the bat all game. "Coach it wasn't even close, don't need help" coach: "Just ask" "I got the call coach. Wasn't close" coach: "Why can't you just ask" "Why do you want me to ask coach, his bat barely moved off his shoulder" coach: "Because I want to appeal" all the fans behind the coach: "just ask, just ask" "Bob, did he go?" Bob: "No" coach: "See, that wasn't so hard, was it?" ... steps back into the dugout knowing he didn't go the whole time but he "won", so he gets to feel good about himself ------- Happened to me my first year umpiring.

Agreed. Unless the official scorer thinks B/R would have made it safely if they tried for him. Then it could be a base hit. Either way, RBI.

In my third year now. I was asked this the other day and I summed it up like this: I think plate is harder to be good at but bases are more difficult to be really great at. I just feel the movement and positioning and weird plays that seemingly come out of nowhere are more challenging. The plate is a bit more predictable in a sense. However, plate is more important for game management and has the higher probability of causing a ruckus if not executed competently. Perhaps my perspective will change after a couple more years, idk.

If he knows he got it wrong, he can reverse the call, no? Advance each runner one base if that's what you think would have happened. Obviously not ideal, but iirc, you can correct this.

No R1 in my example. Just R2 attempting to steal. 1B is open.

This ^^^^ is the way I judge it. But there are some experienced umpires in my association that don't subscribe to this, so they all just said "it's up to you - nobody is wrong". I disagree. I think you're right and they're wrong, lol.

I also have never been satisfied with an answer on this. Currently how I conduct business: 1. Level of Play - I take this into account. I personally don't do much under 14 years old, if ever, but you obviously have to take that into play. The nice thing is, with younger kids, if they aren't good enough to make a pop fly look ordinary, they probably aren't good enough to turn a double play. 2. Wind/Rain - I take this into play. If the wind is swirling, I'm going to be a little slower to call it a infield fly due to the fact my "gut" doesn't process how "ordinary" it is as quickly. 3. Position of the players - Definitely relevant. Infield playing in the grass to cut a runner at home, and a high pop up to outfield grass... probably a running catch... probably not infield fly. Standard depth, probably IFF every time. THIS ALL BEING SAID. My biggest take away from bringing it up to my HS colleagues was this a point one of the guys made: "The winds could be swirling and it could be extremely difficult to track the ball, but if the ball lands right behind the pitcher's mound at the feet of a fielder who could easily make a double play, then you should have called it to protect the runners regardless of whether they made it look ordinary or not." I thought this was a good point.

Had a fly ball that was hit fairly high. Probably 7-8 seconds in the air. I called infield fly just before it hit it's apex, as it seemed very routine, but up to that point I was only watching the ball. The ball ended up dropping about 6 feet behind 3B and 10 feet off the line. Either the SS or the F5 could have camped under it for a few seconds easily. But instead, F5 ran in a couple steps, misjudged it, then found it, then backpedaled about 10 steps as he called it, then turned and tried to catch it willie mays over the shoulder. Suffice it to say it tipped off his glove and he dropped the ball. SS stood there in concrete and watched F5 fail. Coach was livid that I didn't allow his kids to "play the game" and he would have had bases loaded. Saying that because F5 was off the base his kid would have made it to 3B. Argued that it wasn't ordinary effort. If you snapshot a free frame as the kid is going to catch it, I would agree. But it SHOULD have been ordinary effort (14U travel ball) and I would say would have been caught while camping under it 8/10 times at this skill level. I saw him a couple weeks later and he said, did you see the tiktok I posted of your infield fly? ... you got roasted... I just responded with, I heard those Tik Tok umpires are the best of the best. ------------- I brought it up at a HS association breakfast and there was like a 50/50 split. A lot of folks were saying to watch the fielders and if they misjudge it, don't call it. Other agreed you call it, cause if there could still easily be a double play, you have to call it whether they misjudged it or not.

So this is the first thing that came to mind for me. My understanding is that on a BB, the threshold to get the former batter for interference on a play is much stricter. Essentially, there has to be intent. Whereas with standard Batter Interference, intent is irrelevant. For example, R2 3 balls on the count. R2 steals as ball 4 is called. Batter turns and steps to toss his bat and elbow guard, clearly getting in the path of catcher throwing down to B3 with his movement. If no intent is judged, no call, the runner is just doing the normal things that come with earning 1B on a BB. Is that correct?

This is interesting. I didn't think of this. I know this is OBR/NCAA originally, but at least for NFHS there is: 2-22-3 . . . "The fielder without possession of the ball denies access to the base the runner is attempting to achieve." Which is irrelevant, because he has the ball. but: 2-22-1 . . . "...intentional or unintentional...hinders a runner or changes the pattern of play..." If both players truly accidently ran into each other, then the runner was definitely hindered from advancing. I believe the fielder is liable to stay out of the runner's way since no tag/play was being attempted on said runner. I think there is a case here for obstruction in NFHS.

I know this one has been sitting here a few days, but just to clarify: The umpire should have called "time" - "interference" on the initial hinderance of F6 fielding the ball. Interference is an immediate dead ball, not delayed. Then you have R2 out for interference, BR gets 1B, and R3 back to 3B. Just as @Tborze concluded. However, I think it's worth mentioning that if in the umpires judgement it prevented additional outs from being made, that could change the penalty. That being said, with no force outs available, I'm inclined to agree with no additional outs.

No call. Give a safe signal for "that's nothing" and see who gets up first