NFUA_44

Only in Texas, in the bottom of the 8th with the winning run on third..............just sayin........

If there's a throw, it's not a feint ("fake throw"). OBR explicitly requires throwing TO THE BASE (1B only). So it IS about the base. The interp permitting a throw to F3 in position to make a play is a guideline for judging whether the throw was sufficiently to the base. maven That makes sense, and I stand corrected! Now I'm wondering how that relates to a throw to F3 who is away from the base but making a play on R1? At work so no manuals to ref, am I thinking of an Interp or AO maybe? ON EDIT: Doh, never mind just saw the bottom of your post maven that answers it! I hate reading on this phone!

That's the only one now!

Correct me if I am wrong, its not so much about the base (as freyhawk mentioned) but about the fact that throwing it where there is no reasonable chance for a play is an illegal feint to 1st

Until (or if) the guy who called it explains his reasoning we are left with whatever we can armchair out of it. I will go with Rich in the sense that yu have to be situationally aware of what is going on, at the same time the umpires didn't give up the 10 runs, and didn't put the HT in the sitch where the game was on the line, the next pitch could have easily been roped into the gap with the same result. If coaches are involved in ANY part of the selection process then your asking for trouble. Isn't it part of their make-up to do whatever they can to win, esp. In a playoff scenario. TX needs to hand over the reins of the selection process to the State UMPIRE Assn. And let them handle it. Its sour grapes from a team that was billed as the "clear favorite" and didn't get the job done. The only way to make it something else is to show real evidence that the umpiring crew somehow "cheated". Just my HO

Maven; I'm not disagreeing with you about the rule, and I can see it being POSSIBLE here, I just see it more of a bad throw than something I would balk. Its got BIG HTBT written all over it

That's Priceless! I would have a hard time trying to explain that balk with a straight face. I can easily see where F1 confused the BC with his F3, and I don't see any real "intent" to take him out. That part of it is more HTBT though, there could be some history. I have called the balk for the fient to 1st by throwing away from the bag many times, this doesn't look like it IMHO.

That's what it's gonna feel like when he goes to take a piss for a day or two!

^^^^^^ This, 110% First and foremost, get him into a real uniform. It will help instill the pride and confidence he will need when he gets out there and already looks that much better than alot of the others. It also has the extra benefit and get many of the others excited about working hard enough to "earn" that uniform and all the respect that comes with it. As BigUmpire suggested, LL has some great tools available on their website, especially around the youth umpire, get him with his nose there and it will pay big dividends. If he shows great interest talk to your Supervisor about maybe spring the $ to get him registered on the LL Umpire Registry, it provides some great benefits and access to good tools also. And your already doing what matters most. Show an interest and help them learn. When new guys get the support of veterans taking the time to help them the ones you want to hang around are going to appreciate what is being given to them. Good luck, and just be yourself, that's #1

I will echo what scrounge and steve said about the additional manuals. The J/R is invaluable, and if you have any kind of history bug in you I would suggest the JEA manual which not only covers Interps but provides great historical context of the rules and how they have evolved. Places like this forum are another awesome tool and can help in so many different ways. And thank you, for taking the time to participate. The debate, and conversation that happens around situations, rules, and game management helps everyone in the end. Ignore the jerks, they never hang around anyway.

They were heavily favored over Eagle Pass and wound up loosing it...........wow...........it just has to be the umpires fault. I mean how else could it have hapened?

If I am running late I will often apply the Axiron at stop lights, and wear my hat backwards because it makes me more aerodynamic and I can get to the plate meeting on time, while also allowing me extra momentum in my coverage of third.

Congrats! It's a great experience, and goes to show what hard work will do for you. Have some fun, pregame, pregame, pregame, and don't suck!

They fought, bled, and died for the freedom I enjoy to say it was a beautiful thing, or that I thought it sucked. Thank you for that, and much more then and now. Being a HUGE Metallica fan, and someone that couldn't play Guitar Hero to save his life, that video just rocked, and it's on a diamond which makes it that much better. At the same time I would love to hear Johnny Cash, Buddy Holly, and maybe even Patsy Cline do the anthem, just sayin.......

"Ball -- outside. Outside -- ball." Turn to the coach. "How's that?" Good! Or: To the 1B dugout: "Ball!" To the 3B dugout: "Ball!"

Michael, is there an auto correct story here or have you adopted a new image?

James, You can't argue with silence. Go back to your OP and stop when you tell him your not going there. As you pointed out yourself, you continued the argument and provided fuel for the fire. I would have to say I probably would have responded in much the same manner, mainly because it is someone I know, trust, and work with, who should damn well know better. At the same time, I know better, and you just taught yourself a valuable lesson. You also helped to make sure it doesn't happen again by getting on here and talking about it. Just stop and think about how different it would have been if you'd just shut down after your initial warning. It's almost like the hillarity that can ensue when the fans try to ride you and you ignore them 100%, some of the crap they say is nothing more than trying to provoke a reaction from you. I will almost bet it's the same way with your coach/umpire guy. Next time you see him, just act like nothing has happened and when he gets around to apologizing, you can smile and give him a whack in the head.

Thanks plateumpire, that's a great link!

Deceit and trickery have been a part of the game since it's inception. Illegal Deception is defined in the book to prevent those things that give an unfair advantage to one side or the other. Instead of the paragraphs your writing to justify a rule that doesn't apply, teach the defense to pay attention. Vigilance is key in the game at all levels and in all things. It is truly hard to imagine this being a rampant problem. And quite honestly if a coach gets hung on it, maybe, just maybe he will learn to teach his players to pay closer attention. There are holes in the two man system but most of the time experienced two man teams will see the "cut" around third base, or not fall for the hidden ball trick. The rules and Interp's are put together in such a way as to punish those that would use "illegal deception" for an advantage. Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it can't be done, It just means that there is a penalty for doing something illegal. The offensive team is running a legal feint/deke, and at the same time they are putting their runners at risk which means they are running as much risk in the process as anything else. Especially with the game winning run standing on 3rd, someone should be paying attention. Don't make it harder than it is. The rule doesn't apply to the situation your trying to make it fit into. It's purpose was to keep batters from delaying the game unnecessarily and the penalty associated with it. Common sense umpiring will also tell you the first offense for this type of behavior is to warn him, not to jump out there and start bangin strikes. And as Rich just pointed out above it is specified for National Association Games.

Also note that some OBR based rule books allow for dead ball appeals. USSSA is one of them. As Rich alluded to though, check your specific rule set to see if they allow both.

Newsflash OBR had balks as a dead ball originally. If you can't make your point without resorting to ambiguous personal attacks on people then your no better than a jackwagon coach. Make your case and be done with it, stop being a whiney b!tch. You don't like the ruleset, find other games.

?? LOL..... My phone tries to help me and sometimes I miss what it did. I guess my phone is a closet liberal. Is it by chance an Obamaphone?

Bear, Please enlighten us on how you have found a way to see it. As others have noted that touch at 3rd is down the list and may only get a quick glance depending on what is happening out in front, I think I'm really only looking to make sure R2 doesn't cut the corner. In a third world scenario I can see R2 trying to make a run at HP IF somebody decides to give up on R3 at the plate, and maybe go to 1st to get the out. Even then it's a real long shot IMHO.

Got a clip I can use on that?

Congrats!