Cav

Murphy's Laws of Umpiring: 4. Sunscreen attracts cowhide. Luciano's Corollary: Often enough umpires don hundreds of dollars worth of protection only to be hit on a ten-cent application of sunscreen.

Did F2 touch the ball over fair territory?

NFHS 6-2-4-d 1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request "Time," it shall not be a balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call "Time" and begin play anew [Emphasis mine]

You should have been around when an argument eventually caused a rule to be changed?

Useless rules get changed because they are frequently enforced by smart umpires.

A lawyer worrying about being sued? I don't care who you are. That's funny right there. ~ Larry

Also check out CB 8.3.2K and transpose HP for 1B.

Here in our piece of paradise, my NFHS season opens Monday at a nice park with two of the better teams in the local area with the weather forecasted to be 52F, 13mph winds and a 70% chance of rain. I'm sure there's a reason we do this, but it escapes me at the moment.

It's a catch if the ball goes in flight from the defense to the defense but not off de-fence.

Years ago at a travel tournament, I had a not-so-close play at the plate to end a late half-inning. The runner starts screaming at me that F2 missed the tag which he clearly didn't. The 3B coach comes running up to the plate and I get ready for the worst. The coach partially jumps over his runner, who is still sitting on the ground, and to my surprise turns his back to me. He then bends over and gets right in the kids face yelling something to the effect, "If you would have started running as fast as you finished running, you wouldn't be here arguing about a tag. Now get your [lazy butt] off the ground and out in the field before your replacement gets there." The coach was Frank Tanana Walt Terrell.

Or before the throw.

Like I said on the first page of this thread, I'm happy with NFHS mechanics to cover the OP. That said, I would be more happy working with just one set of mechanics instead of flip-flopping for whatever reasons. There's enough useless rules differences to worry about. We will always have more than a few because the games are different for specific, and sometimes valid reasons. But, why would we want or need any differences in mechanics? I don't want to come across as crass, but if an official at any level can't perform, then it's time to give it up temporarily or permanently; the game deserves better. I've mentioned that fact to more than one and hope my partners will have the cajones to tell me. (Note to self: Choose your partners wisely.) Bottom line: Majority rules.

Yes.

NFHS... 8.2.2 SITUATION C: The runner from first base misses second base on his way to third. He is: (a) standing on third base; or (b) halfway between second and third base when the throw from the outfield sails into the bleachers. RULING: In (a), all the defense needs to do is verbally state that the runner missed second base. He would be ruled out. He cannot legally attempt to return to touch second, since he was on a subsequent base when the ball became dead. In (b), the runner may attempt to return and touch second base since he has not yet gained third base. The defense cannot appeal the missed base if the runner has initiated an attempt to return to the base or until all playing action is over. 8.2.2 SITUATION E: The runner misses second base and, with the ball still in play, attempts to return and touch second base. The defense simply announces that he missed the base. RULING: Since the runner has initiated action to return, the defense must tag him unless it is a force play, in which case all they would need to do is touch the base with the ball.

Perhaps we could just upload them to our private servers, unless of course the contents in any way are the protected proprietary rights of those unionized coaches and/or under-age players listed.

NFHS CB 2.29.3 Situation: With one out and R1 on first base, B3 hits a fly ball to short left field. R1 rounds second, but retreats toward first base when he thinks the ball will be caught. The ball drops, but F7 retrieves the ball and throws it to second base. R1 is between first and second. RULING: R1 is out, as the force was reinstated when he retreated past second base. Given that NFHS sit, A runner can legally advance/acquire/touch/pass a base; That same runner can literally un-advance/un-acquire/un-touch/un-pass that same base by "retreating" in the opposite direction to a base to which he is no longer able to legally acquire/touch/pass; and, That same runner's actions literally "reinstated" all of the running proscriptions with which he was burdened on one side of the base that he had "owned" but not on the other side. The question becomes, if not already out there: If a force can be "reinstated" by a runner's own actions, cannot the obligation that he touch the base while advancing also be "reinstated?" This can be the start of a new thread if the mods deem it so.

Having now completed our state meeting, I am pleasantly surprised to learn that we Ohioans have a new mechanics manual. Biggest change in 2-man with bases empty will be the PU no longer picks up BR going into 3B. Regrettably the OP is not addressed so I will default back to the NFHS manual which has the BU taking all calls on all bags.

On NFHS follow-through contact, do we not have to judge whether or not the contact interfered with F2's attempt to play on a runner? (2-21-4) Apathy or ignorance on F2's part should not get an interference call, and lacking interference there would be no dead ball and no need to return runners to the last base at TOI. F2 doesn't need to make a throw, but he does need to convince me and my fans that he was attempting a play. Therein lies the conflict I have with the OP and case play 2014 Sit. 3 that Jimurray graciously provided. Neither mention any action by F2; the contact was presumed to be interference.

Great, now we're getting somewhere. So, now the D properly appeals that R2 missed HP before the BR was putout, that the run shouldn't count because he only touched it after the BR was putout, and that the shrimp bowl ice has all melted, at least in their players' lounge. What is your call?

If properly appealed after R2 "fixed" his infraction, would you rule on a proper appeal by the D?

Maven, I wasn't purposely going to mechanics as an hijack, but I'll try to steer my remarks back to the rules. I know what I want to write, but it isn't always read the way I think I wrote it. And thanks, SA, for CC's input. I used to really like his insight, but now I'm too cheap to buy his pubs. Let me take a different tack. Your first post was... What is your NFHS call if R2 who passed, but did not touch HP came back and touched HP after the BR's unforced 3d out but before the D properly appeals the missed base?

I was writing about the latter on a time play at the plate. And, no, I don't announce every run that scores.

I hope we're not arguing the same thing. You seem like a smart guy and I know I'm a smartass, so the probability of us both being correct is pretty high. Above I stated: R2 passed [but did not touch] HP before BR's unforced 3d out at 2B. "The run scores. Score the run." That is and has been my mechanic for a while now for games played using the major codes, NFHS being one of them. Do you not use that same mechanic?

NFHS 9-1-1 reads, A runner scores one run each time he legally advances to and touches first, second, third and then home plate before there are three outs to end the inning [my emphasis.] R2 did not legally advance to and touch HP before the 3d unforced out. R2 advanced to HP, but he only touched it after BR made the 3d unforced out. (8.2.2M is close, but there is no mention of the number of outs prior to the action.) I would not cancel/nullify the run if R2 were to return to legally touch HP after the BR’s unforced 3d out without appeal. The action warrants no call; I already scored him and the D is attempting to make neither a play nor an appeal. I punish the O for rectifying a base running error whenever they score illegally and the D does its job of seeing and appealing the infraction.

NFHS: Am I missing something? R2 passed HP before BR's unforced 3d out at 2B. "The run scores. Score the run." R2 returns and touches HP after BR's unforced 3d out, but before the appeal. No call. During a live or dead ball, the D properly appeals R2 missed HP which is upheld because: (1) R2 did not legally touch HP before the 3D unforced out; or, (2) R2 cannot rectify a base running infraction after the 3D out; or, (3) It is an advantageous fourth out only because it nullifies a run; or, (4) Something else. Phone call to the press box. NFHS 8-2-6 NHFS CB 9.1.1F?