PeteBooth

I do not know how a hat falling off F1's head is a distraction nor how you can possibly interpret this as an illegal pitch. The batter should be concentrating on the BALL not F1's cap. Did you ever see Mark the Bird Fiderich pitch? He did all kinds of antics on the mound etc. if I remember his cap fell off quite a few times. Nothing in the rule book about it. What about these situations? A fielder EVERY time he chases after a fly ball, his hat comes off or a player running the bases loses his helmet. Each school only gets so many hats / helmets and sometimes they simply do not fit properly. I am more of a stickler when the kid comes to bat and his helmet is not on correctly then I am when a cap comes off becasue a fielder is chasing a fly ball or in your case the cap comes off when F1 pitches. IMO, you can open up a can of worms with this one. Leave it alone. Pete Booth

Fact number 3 is as follows: Experienced managers KNOW NOT to question an umpires strike zone PERIOD. They will get away with asking "where was that one blue" once maybe twice a game. How is saying Blue, your strike zone is tighter than my jock strap, how about a little relief the RIGHT way fact Number 4: You said LL umpire so you will NOT get experienced F2's. You know that going in. All I want from a LL F2 is simply to do his best and protect me. The strike zone is BIGGER so where F2 catches it IMO is of no importance. When you get shaved players then I agree it's good to have a solid F2 but in LL you will not get a good F2 so fact number 4 needs to be amended at least for LL. Finally your statement - I am there for the kids for me is NOT true. I am NOT there for the kids. I am there to make certain no team gains an unfair advantage over another not indended by the rules. I am there for the kids is for the coaches and parents. Pete Booth

JM With many of these type FED rulings, FED leaves it up to each state to administer punishment if any. You will not find in the rule book any penalty associated with an EJ. However, most states require the player and or coach who gets EJ'd to serve a one game suspension, HOWEVER, as mentioned that is not a FED mandate. Then there are protests, Again the FED leaves it up to each state as to whether or not to have protest procedures in place. That's why I prefaced my answer with "in my neck of the woods" The bottom line it is up to the state and umpire association you belong to that decides these types of matters. Since in my area a precedent was already set when a team does not have proper baseballs I will enforce the rule or get clarification "up front" before I begin. Pete Booth

JM Unfortunately, we live in the world of lawsuits. Also, as I mentioned it's not like the AD's and coaches do not KNOW what the "deal is" concerning equipment. It's no different then requiring the NOSCEA sticker on the helmets or bats having the BESR label on them and so on and so forth. if you see a bat WITHOUT the BESR label on it are you going to allow said player to use it or if you discard it that's being OOO? What about the rule requiring coaches to be in uniform. Are you going to allow a coach to coach in one of the coaches boxes without a uniform on (assuming JV and varsity level - modified is an altogether different story) or discard that rule because it's being OOO. We do not WRITE the rules. We enforce the rules given to us by our cleints. Also, I do not know about your area, but enforcing these rules is part of the rating system. In your opinion the decision to uphold the protest might be absurd and incorrect but after that incident no more baseball problems. IMO, a "slap on the wrist" means nothing and that's exactly what will happen if you do nothing. Coaches will start to bring any type baseballs to the game because NOTHING is done when a team does not have the proper baseballs. On the surface it appears rediculous but I can understand why the protest was upheld. Pete Booth

Michael it might be rediculous but IMO it's NOT being OOO. We adhere to our bosses so to speak. Me personally I couldn't care less if they used a baseball that was down to the cork (which when I was a kid we used many a time) It is similar to when FED went from -5 bats to -3 bats. During the first year that the new rule was adopted I cannot tell you how many bats we discarded that year when checking equipment. The point is the AD's and coaches attend the beginning of the year meetings in which these things are discussed. The HT schools should have the proper baseballs. If they don't then IMO AHEAD of time they should notify the other team involved and the HS assignor BEFORE the officials arrive at the field so there is no problem. It's my guess that the protest was upheld to make certain that the schools have proper equipment and it will not be tolerated if you do not. Yes on the surface if appears to be OOO but as mentioned we do not write the rules and unfortunately the umpires take the hear for something that the AD's and coaches should have handled well in advance of the officials showing up at the game. Pete Booth

JM depends upon what state you are from. In my association we had a protest upheld because the wrong baseballs were used. I was not involved in the game but around the 3rd / 4th inning Team A noticed that the baseballs did meet the requirements outlined in 1-3-1 and lodged a protest. The protest was up-held and the game had to be replayed in it's entirety. You said at the beginning of the game so in my "neck of the woods" at the beginning of the game I would call over the DA (if available) of the home school along with the coaches and get clarification. If the VT coach had a problem I would then contact my HS assignor and let the powers to be" sort things out. In summary: It depends upon the state where you live. As mentioned in my area, I would not start the game without getting an ok from the "powers that be" because a protest in which the proper baseballs were not used was already upheld. Pete Booth

Brian I realize there is no need for a vehement Safe call etc., however, that "half hearted" safe signal reminded of a first year LL umpire giving a safe call the way it was done. Even on routine plays, I doubt the PRO schools teach to give THAT KIND of a safe signal. Example: I live near Dutchess Stadium which is the home of the Hudson Valley Renegades a class A affiliate of the Tampa Bay Rays. Like most of us that go to a game I concentrate on the umpires so that I can pick up on something or improove myself. Even on routine plays, the minor league umpires did not give the "half hearted" safe / out call. They didn't "go crazy" but they gave a decent safe / out mechanic. Even if the runner was out by a mile, the BU would give the normal Out mechanic not a "half hearted" out signal. I realize these guys are trying to move up and impress their evaluators, but the point is they are doing what they were taught. That's why I said bad mechanics on the part of the PU. But then again it appears most of these guys do what they want once they "make it". No problem with the safe call it's just the way he signalled. It looked funny and as mentioned above reminded me of a first year LL umpire giving a safe call. Pete Booth

Brian I disagree with you and Warren on this. CC's throw to second base was part of Continuing action and is supported by the authorities. In other words action at this point was NOT relaxed. The Yanks could still appeal. All in all bad mechanics on the part of the PU. If he thought Howard touched the plate originally he would have signalled safe a heck of a lot quicker then he did. It wasn't until CC threw the ball to second base that the PU gave a half hearted safe signal which is another story altogether. I doubt MLB teaches that kind of safe signal at PRO school. All in all it would have been REAL interesting to see what would have happened had the Yanks appealed the play but they didn't so the point is moot. Pete Booth

You have the awards correct but you did not use proper mechanics. You deal with the LEAD runner first NOT the BR when making awards. As soon as the ball goes into DBT the call is 1. TIME 2. We now make awards 3. Awards for the most part are determined by TOT or TOP In your case it's TOP because it's the first play by an infielder. A play as defined by Roder / Evans is when the defense makes an attempt to put out a runner. A fielder looking at the runner is NOT an attempt to retire said runner so in your scenario the award is 2 bases from TOP. We deal with the LEAD runner first not the BR. You said I, BU, award BR second and R2 home. That is NOT the correct mechanic even though in this scenario it makes no difference but it could as in the Original OP presented. You award R2 home THEN award the BR second base. Why do we deal with the lead runner first? let's go back to the OP. We have R1 and a fly ball (doesn't matter where) Since it's a fly ball, R1 is most likely 1/3 or 1/2 way to second waiting to see if the ball will be caught or not. The BR rounds first (cannot pass R1) and is most likely right behind or near R1. Now the ball goes into DBT. You do NOT START with the BR in making the awards otherwise you get the wrong result and therefore, put yourself in jeopardy of a knowledgeable coach protesting a rule misapplication. You start with the LEAD runner. In the OP's scenario R1 gets third base - 2 bases from TOT and the BR only gets second base meaning in reality the BR was awarded only one base which is explained in the OBR Comment section that I quoted in another response. Pete Booth

Since this is an umpire Forum, as Warner Wolf says Let's go to the rule book. Here is the applicable rule which is the same as your OP. In your OP R1 to third and the BR to second supported by the aforementioned rule and comment. Pete Booth

I am surprised this Forum has not been "buzzing" with the play that happened in the Angels / Yanks series the other night at Yankee Stadium. here's a link for you to view. The play cenetered around Angels F6 Eric Aybar who straddled second base on a routine play and the runner was ruled safe. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091018&content_id=7486540&vkey=news_ana&fext=.jsp&c_id=ana Baseball has now come full circle and for those traditionalists as they say in Brooklyn NY - FORGET ABOUT IT. We had the lowering of the pitching mound. Advent of the DH. Smaller ball-parks Inter-League play All Star Game deciding HF advantage in the World Series A tie game in the All Star game Wild card teams and NOW REASON: SLO MO Replays have IMO ruined the game of baseball. The play in the link "back in the day" was an AUTOMATIC. Now it's changed. CATCH 22: Perhaps in the not so distant future, some high priced F4/F6 will be lost for the season ON A ROUTINE PLAY where they are now "forced" to touch the base and therefore, risk injury. Now these saem people who said the call was correct (which by the rules of the game was) will say WHAT HAPPENED to the neighborhood - GO FIGURE. Today umpires cannot win because of replay. In Summary: Do you guys give the neighborhood and also the phantom tag. FWIW I do but then I am not on TV. Pete Booth

No problem Hokie that's what is great about discussions. if we all AGREED it would be boring. The more important issue is that most raised EXCELENT points without calling someone a name. I would like to address your following point: I agree with the aformentioned however, that is LIFE. No matter what you do for a living it seems we are almost always "covering our A$$$$". I hardly ever kept old E-mails. Now I keep just about everything so that if I am in a meeting and someone says something aimed at me I have 'proof" to the contrary. Is this the way to live and work with one another? - NO but as they say It is what it is. Yes this is more of a philosophy issue, and from your posts you feel strongly aginst it but in the scheme of things if you umpire a decent schedule the $100.00 is NO BIG deal and will be recouped in a few games. IMO, here is another example: Personally, I like the charcoal gray pants, HOWEVER our HS association has NOT mandated them as of yet. My point: I believe all of us have some disagreements within our respective umpire associations, HOWEVER, if we want work we abide by those mandates. The $100.00 background check is no different. You can feel strongly against it but the bottom line is Pay it or go elsewhere. Pete Booth

In reality the ball is either Live or Dead, the term "delayed dead" is a term for umpires so that we KNOW when to enforce. Example: CI or CO for FED is a "dealyed dead ball" Why! suppose the batter is obstruced/interfered with by F2 but still manages to hit a rope over F7's head. We do not "kill the play" right then and there. We wait until the play is over before we enforce or not enforce depending upon the results, hence the term 'delayed dead" Pete Booth

The rule code you use is ESSENTIAL in answering many of these type OP's Why! In FED BASEBALL rules, the obstructed runner is AUTOMATICALLY awarded at least one base beyond his / her point of the obstruction. In the OP F5 was standing on third base and obstructed R2, so in FED R2 is awarded Home, which would make the coaches interference (which is a HTBT situation) moot. Now if you use OBR there are 2 types of OBS "A" and "B" In your OP we have Type 'B" OBS because at the time of the obstruction no play was being made on the runner. In Type "B" OBS the umpire will award bases IF ANY that nullify the act of OBS. Therefore, assuming you awarded third base only and the 3B coach assited the runner AFTER rounding the 3B bag, you have OBS, but the runner was trying to advance PAST her protected to base on her own peril and therefore, would be declared out because of coaches interference. As far as judging coaches interference as mentioned sounds like we WHTBT, however, if the OBS is the reason the runner ended up in the 3 base coaches arms, I would most likely not call interference and simply enforce the OBS. In Summary: You need to look up the softball rule concerning OBS for your league. Even in softball you have different rule sets. There is ASA, then there is FED and USSSA I believe has their own rules as well, so as mentioned your "first stop" should be the rule-book. If the runner is AUTOMATICALLY awarded at least one base beyond the point of OBS, then the coaches actions are irrelevant. Pete Booth

I know you mentioned the Phillies / Rockies series but I am surprised ALL the Boards are not Buzzing concering the blown call by the LFU in the Twinkees / Yanks series. A clear cut- double turned into a Foul ball. You do not need 6 umpires. IMO, it's like us amateurs working in a 3 or 4 person crew at the end of the year. We are used to 2 man and it's difficult to adjust using 3 and 4 because we are not used to it. IMO, it all boils down to MLB's fault, meaning they do not invest in the Minor league program and thus we are NOT getting the best of the best. Until you make it to the BIG TIME you earn peanuts. The UIC at the Triple A level makes only about $35-40k. Also, you only have so many years to advance then MLB sends you a letter that says they no longer require your services. No severance pay no nothing. How is that kind of system going to attract someone. You have to be young, no attachments (unless you come from money) and be willing to work for peanuts. IMO, if we want to see umpiring at the major league level improve then they MUST invest in the minor league program. Bt invest I mean make the salary levels better so that you get more to choose from. Also, I do not KNOW what type of rating system they have for the umpires. It's funny in that we sometimes chastize the umpires at the LLWS and then look at what we see on TV. It's my gut that IR will expand in the near future. FWIW I know we all make our share of bad calls but one would think that the umpiring at the highest level where they earn BiG bucks would be better then what it is. Pete Booth

I disagree. As I said to Warren it's this simple. If you want to work in this association and a background check is a requirement you have 2 choices. 1. Pay the ONE TIME FEE of $100.00 and go about your business OR 2. Do not pay it and then look for somewhere else to umpire. Schools are cutting back so no need to add extra expense on them Example: In my area the varsity schedule is being cut by 20% this year which translates into 4 fewer games per team. That's a BIG cut Some have cancelled their modified or Freshman Programs because they do not have the money. I do not know about your area, but as mentioned in my area the schools are cutting back so no need to add extra cost on them. You said you did 90 games. I will assume an average paycheck per game to be in the $40.00 range (In my area I average $60 - $65/game) Therefore, 90 games x $40.00/game = $3,600.00 per year. Out of that you have to pay your regular dues (In my association we have to pay $80.00/year to our HS association and $60.00/yr to our summer assignor) Let's say your dues are $60.00 - That leaves $3,540.00 Gas to and from games another $200.00 which leaves $3,340.00. Equipment purchases say another $200.00 which leaves $3,140.00 and the $100.00 background check which leaves a final balance of $3,040.00 or there -abouts. IMO, not a bad "side gig" That's why I say a $100.00 ONE TIME background check Fee in the "scheme of things" is no big deal. Squalk all you want but if that's what they want you to do, either pay it or go elsewhere. Pete Booth

Warren I "hear" what you are saying but an employment situation is different. We are NOT Employees but more like independent contractors. IMO, here's a better example. As an employee of a company you are covered under Gen Liab Insurance / Workers comp etc. Those are BENEFITS paid to the employee. HOWEVER, when you are an independent contractor, it is up to you to make certain you have all the statutory benefits etc. In other words, the client you work for is NOT going to pay you for those benefits. IMO, it's like this either pay the $100.00 for the background check or DO NOT work it's that simple. Pete Booth

Warren in the times we live in IMO the costs should NOT be passed down to the schools. The $100.00 is an INVESTMENT in umpiring. No different then purchasing equipment. Another example in addition to the one I already gave. I do not know how long you have been umpiring, but when I started we wore the Elbeco Blue shirts. They cost around $10.00 - $15.00. Our association patch cost $5.00 and then you simply sowed them on or used velcro and attached them to the shirt. Then we went to the Cliff Kein navy Blue pull-over shirts at a cost of approx $25.00 - $30.00 (depending upon if you ordered in bulk or not) These costs were not passed down to the schools or the umpire association. It was up to each member to either purchase the shirts or simply do not umpire in this association. We also changed from the black pull-over jacket to the Navy Blue pullover. Again another added cost. The point is whenever an umpire association changes uniform etc. it is up to the INDIVIDUAL to pay these costs. It's part of our investment in the profession. In a nutshell the $100.00 is NO BIG DEAL. It's a one time FEE and that money will be recouped in 2 / 3 games. If you umpire 100 or so games each year that's not very much in the scheme of things. Pete Booth

In the scheme of things $100.00 is not that much money. It is a ONE TIME Fee and is basically 2 or 3 games Fees (depending upon one's pay structure) The $100.00 is also tax deductable if you file Schedule C on your 1040. IMO, it's an investment if you wish to contnue umpiring. No different then purchasing equipment. Example: In My HS association there is talk about going to Charcoal Gray Pants. Presently we wear the Heather Gray. If and when we change to the Charcoal Gray (which many college associations have already done so) that will be an added cost. If you get only one pair of Plate/Base pants that's approximately $100.00 right there. Umpire associations do not PAY for your umpire equipment so IMO they should not pay for your background check. If umpire associations start paying for back-ground checks for all of their umpires who need them then it stands to reason the dues will increase to cover the cost and then EVERYONE in the association will raise a "stink" if you umpire many games IMO the $100.00 is no "BIG DEAL" and you will recoup that mone as stated in your first 2 or 3 games. Pete Booth

I agree with an EJ call but NOT an OBS call. According to Roder, there is no such animal as verbal OBS in OBR. Players at the shaven age should KNOW not to listen to an opposing player. If they do not hear the umpire call FOUL do not 'trust" an oppenent. I would EJ because it's inevitable that something "ugly" will happen next time this player comes to bat. FED has a specific case play about verbal OBS so in a game played by FED rules you call OBS AND EJ the offender. Fed rules 2-22 and rule 3 governing EJ's Pete Booth

Was there R1 also? RE: I agree with others. With R3 only and infield playing in go to Deep B. Other then "kiddie ball" you will NOT see a pick off of R3 when the infield is in UNLESS R3 is REAL daring. Pete Booth

The aforementioned is why Amateur baseball should be TIMED. When the game does NOT resemble a game it's time to go. What I try to do (doesn't always work) is talk to the coach who is getting drilled and say something along the lines of "skip want to save arms and play another day". Hopefully you can get the coach of the team who is getting drilled to concede the game and go home. It's the umpires who take the brunt of it because the strike zone starts to get ridiculous etc. Also, some leagues put in this mercy rule: 15 after 3; 12 after 4; and 8 after 5. Pete Booth

From the OP Bases were loaded with 1 out, I am PU. RH Batter drives a ball straight into the ground Since the ball was hit on the ground, runners should be moving - PERIOD. You have to wait sometimes when calling FOUL or signalling fair. Same sitch - Bases juiced 1 out, however, this time B1 hits a slow roller down the first / third base line (doesn't matter). What does the PU do Answer: NOTHING UNTIL the ball is touched by a fielder and then we make a ruling or the ball settles and then we make a ruling. In other words as PU we are signalling NOTHING. The players since the ball was hit on the ground should be moving. The point is I do not necessarily agree that the poster took too long in determining Fair/ Foul UNLESS the ball settled, however, on balls hit near the box it is difficult to determine sometimes. Bottom Line - The players should have been running PERIOD until they hear the umpire call FOUL. Since we do not verbalize a fair ball (we simply point) if the players heard NOTHNG then as mentioned they should have been running. Pete Booth

The only time I throw the ball back to F1 is to speed up the game. Example: F2 goes to retrieve a foul ball. I simply throw the ball to F1, HOWEVER I make certain F1 KNOWS I am throwing it. I say "Pitch" to get his attention and then throw it (no fastball as those days are over for me) Once F1 / F2 get to KNOW an umpires tendencies they will look for it. If it's a foul ball out of the park or down the RF / LF line I simply give F2 the ball. If there is a relatively large backstop; at the plate conference I will instruct the coaches to tell the on deck batter to retrieve the foul balls so we can keep the game moving. All in all I do not think this is a BIG deal. In your OP as to why the PU was throwing fastballs I have no idea and that is a bad thing. If the PU wants to throw fastballs perhaps he should be playing in an adult mens league game (oh no I take that back . ) Pete Booth

Michael the one site I thought would become THEE site was Rob Drakes (the PRO Umpire) site. It was interesting to see how a PRO umpire would rule and handle certain situations. I found the discussions very informative and Rob like Warren was doing his best to keep the "flame throwers" away. In addition even though Rob was a PRO umpire he did not "look down" upon the questions or answer them in a snotty condescending type of way. The problem and for obvious reasons MLB told Rob to shut his site down which IMO was a shame because membership seemed to be growing by "leaps and bounds" when his site was active. I think eteamz is the slowest and IMO is basically a LL umpire Forum. As you well remember eteamz used to really buzz when Carl Childress, Warren Wilson, Dave Hensley, BFair and Jim Porter et al. used to post. Now-a-days I would venture to guess that at least 85% or more of the posts center around LL. I haven't seen you post there in quite some time. Also another well known poster at eteamz (AB) doesn't seem to post as much anymore. It would be nice to get AB over here. I hardly do LL anymore so I do not even try to get into discussions about LL Regs/ Poof rule etc. The Official Forum also is not as good as it once was. In the beginning I thought the official Forum was the best around especially after the demise of McGriffs. I do visit the Offiical Forum but do not post as much unless there is a topic of interest. The threads at the Official Forum these days have a propensity to go way off topic etc. and therefore add little value. I would rate Umpire.Org where Richard Siegal is moderator as my number 1 Forum (sorry Warren) for now. Richard is very knowledgeable. This site is a close second but there are periods of time where there simply is not that much action. Myself, there was a period of weeks before I posted something because as mentioned there really was nothing new on the site. Also, with all due respect to Critter it is posters like him who ask questions, receive good honest feedback without name calling etc. and in the same breath say they were treated with disrespect. Those type of posters IMO we do not need and as mentioned detract from a site trying to "get off the ground" Another promotion if you will that IMO we could use on this Forum is some women officials like Rita at eteamz. Perhaps a PM to Rita and ask her to visit here. I know it's difficult but IMO could benefit the Forum. I like you post on the NFHS discussion Forum as well, however, most of that discussion is during the HS season. I know Warren is trying his best to improve membership and add some things and hopefully if membership improves we will have more action even in the offseason. All in all this is a very good site and as membership continues on the uprise "action" will follow. Pete Booth