PeteBooth

That is the 64 thousand dollar question and we could start a new thread on this subject matter. IMO there is no clear-cut answer. For the most part the first thing a coach wants the umpire who "kicked" the call to do is get help. That is ANOTHER subject all it's own so when you ask the question How do you handle a situation in which you kicked a call will also bring in the topic of asking for help. IMO, the 2 are inter-twined. Most of us who have attened a PRO clinic specifically the Evans clinic KNOW that the PROS frown on asking for help in a 2 person system, HOWEVER, if you watch enough MLB baseball, it seems that the umpires huddle more then they used to and contrary to what is taught do seek help in certain situations. The Mets / Braves game a few years back comes to mind when the umpire "kicked" a catch / no catch call. It all boils down to the coach. Do you know him? What type of league is it? etc. etc. Also, in some respects you have to be careful when admitting certain mistakes otherwise it can bite you in the you know what? Example: You miss a balk call. The OM requests and is granted TIME. He says "hey Pete didn't F1 balk" I say "skip I missed it" as opposed to "Skip I MAY HAVE missed it but I will watch next time" In the former the coach could Protest a rule misapplication claiming that the umpire admitted he "blew the call" and did NOTHING to correct it. In the latter, I acknowledged the coaches concern but DID NOT violate a rule. Therefore, depending upon the teams / coaches and circumstances will dictate whether you can admit you kicked it, however, when you do admit you "kicked it" be prepared for the coach to ask you to get help which in a way you are now forced to do (by admitting you have no clue) UNLESS your partner was in no position to aid you. In general I would NOT admit to a coach that I kicked it. I would say something along the lines of "skip I had him on the bag" (using the pulled foot scenario) etc. We all make mistakes it's just that umpire mistakes seem to be armagedon sometimes. Pete Booth

Hi all: if you visit some internet umpire discussion Forums ie: eteamz; The official Forum and Umpire.org you will notice how Slooow things are. Routine type threads turn into marathons because there really is not that much action even in the off season. At one time most if not all the umpire internet discussion Forums "buzzed" even in the off season. Now things are real quiet. IMO, here are some of the reasons. 1. The "old timers" ie; Carl Childress et el do not post anymore. It seemed anytime that Carl was involved in a thread it had some "juice" in it. 2. Perhaps there are private Forums where a group of posters who used to post quite frequently have resided hence you do not hear much of them anymore. 3. Could be job / health related 4. There really is not that much to discuss anymore. I mean how many times can you discuss the concept of "last time by" etc. 5. Today's poster is simply too sensitive compared to the poster of "back in the day" Those are just a few. What's your thought and do you think the umpire internet discussion Forums will start to fold. Hey it's a Friday and as I stated things are slow so what the heck Pete Booth

Number one on the list should be 1. Keep an eye out for GLM's ok back to your OP One thing which IMO should be on the list is this. Do not let a bad call get you down and keep you from focusing. I beleive we have all "kicked" our share of calls. Just like when we played we were told not to dwell on an error we committed or K'ing on a bad pitch. We were told to keep our head in the game and get'm next time. When we umpire no one is going to tell us "that was ok blue get the next call right" For the most part we will take a little heat for a blown call but then we have to forget about it and get ready for the next pitch or call on the bases. Early in my career I used to dwell on the bad calls I made and inevitably my entire game there after would suffer. In summary: Do not dwell on bad call. let it go and get ready for the next one. Pete Booth

Warren this is the first year that my Fall season is slow. My first game is scheduled for tomorrow but in all likelyhood it will be rained out. It's been raining all day here in NY and the weather calls for more rain tomorrow. Also, for the first time in many a year we are competing with another assignor for business. Also, the economy is bad and some of the leagues are asking for one umpire only. All in all from the HS season through summer my schedule has not been near what it was the past 4/5 years partly due to a new assignor taking some business away from us and partly due to a terrible summer in which many of my games were rained out. Pete Booth

As others mentioned there are 3 MAJOR rule Codes: OBR / FED and NCAA Recommendation: Learn each code SEPARATELY and do not try and co-mingle them until you have a firm grasp of the rules. In order to fully understand FED rules IMO, you have to become HS certified. Most states in the US use FED rules for HS. There are a few that use OBR. Once you start umpiring HS games, attend the meetings then you will start to grasp the rules. It's like anything else in life, there are books and then there is ACTUAL PRACTICE and IMO you need actual practice to firmly grasp the rules. IMO, simply purchasing the FED rule/case book is not enough. You need to umpire HS games to grasp the rules. Same is true for college. Even though NCAA rules are "close' to OBR they have their own rule /case book. As with FED, it behooves one to umpire at the collegiate level to firmly grasp those rules. Which brings us to OBR. With the exception of PRO ball, no league that I know of uses what I call pure OBR meaning the STRICT OBR rule-book. The STRICT OBR rule book has no safety caveats added on as do many youth leagues that adopt the OBR rule-book. Many leagues that I umpire are hybrids, meaning they borrow certain rules from each MAJOR rule-book. Example: Legion baseball is OBR based BUT if you look on their web-site and download the rules you will see that Legion has the Collegiate FPSR and the Collegiate Collission rule. Same is true for other leagues. They are OBR based but some have adopted some FED rules like the -3 bats, NOCSEA stamp on the helmets, FPSR (force play slide rule) and MC (Malicious Contact) rule. LL (little league) is a separate animal altogether and unless you primarily umpire LL it's difficult to grasp their rules because LL has REGULAR season rules and then Changes them come tournament time. Also, IMO LL has the most convuluted of all rules which is rule 7.13 in dealing with 12 yr. olds on down. I do not keep track of "house rules" which are specific to each league. House rules include: courtesy runner rules; CBO (continious batting order). can a team end with 8 and the like. I simply ask at the plate conference if there are any "special rules" we need to be concerned about. NO BIG deal. In summary: You asked how do you keep all the rules straight when you bounce from one rule set to another? The simple answer is experience and also umpiring in leagues that use the various rules. One other note: IMO a must to have is Carl Childress's BRD (baseball rule differences). In that book Carl has case plays which contrast the various rule codes. That is also a good way to learn the various rule differences in addition to experience. Pete Booth

First off who criticized you? I have read most of the responses to all your posts thus far and no where did I see anyone call you a name etc. I was merely pointing out the TAUGHT mechanic when a player is HBP. You came here with various posts and others responded and now you say "you guys are getting really on my nerves" My answer - continue umpiring any way you choose but then do not ask for comments etc, about what you have done and then say you guys are getting on my nerves. FWIW you are lucky you have not posted on some "other" Forums where you would really get blasted. Pete Booth

The coach might have wanted to "pull a fast one" but your mechanics allowed him to do so. When a runner is HBP the TAUGHT mechanic is to say TIME not dead ball. Once you say TIME then in oder for action to resume F1 will take his place on the pitcher’s plate and the plate umpire calls “Play.” The plate umpire shall call “Play” as soon as the pitcher takes his place on his plate with the ball in his possession. Pete Booth

Warren perhaps I am being picky but at least for the first time or new umpires you should put in a phrase that says: Make certian the coach requests and is granted Time before you entertain any questions from him. IMO, this is sometimes overlooked meaning you have a pulled foot scenario at first base and the coach is questioning you without being granted TIME. Ok now to the Flow-Chart Good job on the flow-chart, however, IMO I would change the wording concerning the following. You say This year we had a mechanics clinic taught by the instructors at the Jim Evans facility in New Jersey. This subject came up and even though they frown on umpires asking for help, the response recommended is as follows: Assumption: pulled foot scenario at first base. The coach requests and is Granted TIME. He wants you to get help on a pulled foot. Your response NOT "Sorry Coach that's my call and we're going to have to stick with it" By saying "skip I had him touching the bag" (whether the coach agrees with it or not) gives a more DIFINITIVE response as opposed to "Sorry Coach that's my call and we're going to have to stick with it" which means you are not definitive but it's your call. Pete Booth

A coach asking you a question on call is not like an officer "being on the job" where he/she is protecting their partner. This was a simple case of a coach wanting to ask YOU what you had and your partner "stepped in" Why are you fine with that? It's one thing if a coach is combative etc. but the coach (even though a rat) has the right to ask YOU what you have or what you saw. This has NOTHING to do with backing up your partner. Your partner made an EJ (whether you agree with it or not) THAT's backing up your partner but now YOUR partner UNDID the EJ. If the "other" coach got upset (which he would be in his right) then you could have had a shi*****e on your hands. Bottom line it's umpire protocol to allow the coach to talk to the umpire who made the call. If it was me and the coach ASKED for time and wanted clarification on a call YOU made I would simply say "skip go talk to critter" IMO, that is not throwing my partner under the bus but observing umpire protocol. AS long as the discussion did not get heated or delay the game I would give you your due to handle the situation. Pete Booth

Why was the PU protecting you? Did you need protection? IMO, that's mistake number 1. Why is the PU giving the coach a warning? You said the HC was upset at YOU not the PU. if anyone is going to give a warning it should have been you IF and I say IF the conversation between you and the HC gets heated and the game is slowed down THEN the PU can intercede to get the game moving. DO NOT ISSUE WARNINGS as that "locks you in" You do not say things such as One more word etc. etc. You simply say "Skip that's enough time to play ball" Also, once you EJ you DO NOT undo it as that sets a VERY BAD precedent. Pete Booth

In addition to what the others mentioned when learning FED rules for the first time FORGET about OBR. Do not try and Co-mingle them until you get a firm grasp of FED rules. Also, IMO, I would recommend purchasing Carl Childress's BRD (baseball rules differences) You can get that by going to officiating.com Pete Booth

more clarification please Did you say to yourself (before opposing coach said something) "hey it was a Foul ball and CONICIDENTALLY at approximately the same time the coach said "didn't hit the batter" OR From your OP it appears that you IN FACT listened to the other coach, thought he had a valid point and then called the girl back. It's no different then if you called a girl out /safe (doesn't matter) and then the coach said something and THEN you changed the call. IMO, he "went off" because he thought you changed the call because of what the other coach said. IMO you compounded the problem. The coach knows or I should say should know that you were closer then he was and IMO that's not what he is mad about. You should have simply said "skip IMJ the ball hit the bat" - END of story Pete Booth

Michael the complication with OBR Type "B" is that it is possible to offer NO protection because of those 2 little words IF ANY . remember the Porter Midnight massacre on eteamz many moons ago. In addition to that there have been other heated debates on OBS over the years. here is what makes it complicated and why I prefer the FED ruling. F1 trys to pick off R1 who is diving back into the first base bag. F3 obstructs R1. Since a play is being made on the runner we call TIME and award R1 second base. Similar play. B1 singles to left center. He rounds the bag, thinks twice about going to second but on his way back to the first base bag he is obstructed by F3. Since no play is being made on the runner, it's type B and most likely all an umpire will offer protection to would be first base. So here we have 2 similar plays on runners going back to first base. One which is type 'A" and said runner gets second base even though he had no intentions of going there. One which is type 'B" and the umpire protects him back to first base only. That's why IMO the OBR ruling is complex. FWIW IMO, OBS should be penalized. When we rule interference we do not "wait and see" irregardless if the player could still make the play or not. For the most part (will not list exceptions in this OP) Interference is enforced 'right away" yet OBS Type "B" we wait and see and can make awards if necessary or make no awards. That's why I like the FED rule. if a runner is obstructed they are going to get at least one base beyond the point where they were obstructed. Easy to understand. Pete Booth

Example: F1 Legally disengages the pitcher's plate and trys to pick off R1. The throw from F1 to F3 goes into DBT. The umpire awards R1 second base. You are OC and request TIME from the umpire. You say "Blue my runner should get third base because F1 ws not on the rubber when he threw the ball." Most of the times the umpire who made the call will check with his partner to get it right, HOWEVER if he does not and sticks with his ruling you have 2 Options 1. Accept the ruling OR 2. Lodge a protest Notice NO THIRD Option like bringing the rule book out with you. Once you lodge the protest, then the umpire will get together with his partner and hopefully the call changed. On the flip side Assignors DO NOT like protests and if an umpiring crew gets something wrong it does not go well for this crew and it will most likely effect their rating and future game assignments. In a nutshell leave the book in your car, dugout etc. It DOES NOT belong on the field or you can read all you want in the parking lot. We do not tell a coach how to coach his team or bring out a coaches instruction manual whenever the coach makes a mistake. Same is true for umpiring. Use the vehicle awarded to you whenever you do not agree with a rule application and that is PROTEST. Like I said in a previous post I have no problem if it's to show me a "house rule" because I do not keep track of all the various house rules we deal with. Pete Booth

SUGGESTION: Since this is an umpire FORUM please READ the rule-book FIRST. Read section 2 defining a Force Play and then rule 4.09 which SHOULD answer any questions you might have on the play. This one is not that difficult compared to some others. Pete Booth

In FED we wait until ALL playing action OR base running responsibilities are COMPLETE. THEN the coach can appeal. We will not accept any appeal while the runners are running the bases because they can still correct mistakes. Pete Booth

Number 1 reason - IT SLOWS the game down. There are many rules which are NOT properly explained in the book. Number one on the list is appeals. The terms which most umpires use in understanding appeals is "relaxed" vs. "unrelaxed" Those terms are NOT in the book so I am not going to engage a coach when discussing appeals. If he doesn't like the ruling then protest. From my experience, many leagues have a hybrid of rules, meaning they might be OBR based but have adopted the HS (FED) FPSR or MC rule. You will not find those rules in an OBR book, so if the coach does bring out an OBR book it's useless. Once you allow a coach to bring a rule book on the field your fellow umpires will not take kindly to it and your assigments will decrease. Also, I know you said don't give the fallback answers but the fact is when a coach brings out a rule-book he is trying to show you up similiar to calling a pitch a strike and a kid starts to draw a line around the plate. I will allow a coach to bring out the "house rules" and show me because it is virtually impossible to keep up with the various "house rules" each league has which includes CBO, CR's EH etc. I have no problem with that because it is not a book rule. Normally I will try and get any house type rules explained during the plate conference. In summary, Do not allow a coach to bring out a rule-book. It's simple: If the coach does not like your RULE interp PROTEST and keep the game moving. EXCEPT if you are doing LL All Stars because the protest must be rectified right there and then (but that's a horse of a different color) Pete Booth

Playing action is now OVER. The runner accepted his award and is now standing on second base. In FED the coach can make a dead ball appeal. While the ball is dead no bases may be run or outs recorded (except the dead ball appeal) The coach says "Blue the BR missed first base" We rule accordingly. The BR is now toast. If he starts to run to first base you simply put a stop to it because the ball is dead. The BR had his chance to correct his base running error when accepting the award and he didn't. Ok now OBR - the ball has to be made live again. At TOP the runner is on second base. When the UIC calls play if R2 (the original BR) starts to return to first base there is another rule that comes into play meaning the runner is now running the bases in reverse order hence you call him out. The bottom line: The runner had his chance to correct his mistake upon acceptance of the award. if he fails for the most part he is toast REALITY: if the BR knows he missed first base and the ball becomes LIVE rather then going back to first base and be called out for running the bases in reverse order he would simply try and advance to third base and try to FORCE the defense to make a play on him. if the defense makes a play on him and he is safe at third base or makes it safely back to second then the defense has lost it's right to appeal. NOTE: In FED, if the OFFENSE initiates the action during LIVE ball the defense can still appeal. Using my example above, in FED the defense could still appeal EVEN though they made a play since it was R2 who initiated the action. Pete Booth

here is the applicable rule covering your situation Therefore, R3's run counts EVEN if he missed home plate. the defense would have to properly appeal. No different then if he didn't slide. You can over-run first base as long as you make no effort to advance and return immediately to the base. Pete Booth

This is a mechanics problem and should be covered in Pre-game. The aforementioned is a BIG problem. You could have more problems on your hand then deciding TOP vs. TOT if R1 INTERFERED with somebody. You said NO ONE was watching R1. Did R1 Touch second base? Did R1 interfere or was R1 obstructed. if "something" did happen your crew could have been "burned" BIG time. I realize you asked about TOP or TOT however, I was concentraing on the mechanics and the fact that no one was wacthing R1 or the 'action" around second base. Generally speaking in a 2 person system one umpire has the ball and the other umpire watches the runner(s). If the BU is watching the BR then the PU should take the lead runner. No need for BOTH of you to watch the BR. To answer your question use the default - TOP but be ready to answer the question from the coach when he inquires about R1 and do not say " Skip I had no clue where R1 was" Sounds like you and your partner need some additional mechanics training as the scenario you posted especially in LL majors happens quite frequently. Pete Booth

Ask your question on the below site http://www.eteamz.com/baseball/boards/index.cfm?m=1,2,3,4,5 That site has many knowledgeable LL umpires who have umpired the 60ft. diamind using 4 person mechanics Pete Booth

From the OP 4 man on a 60 foot LL The CCA manual deals with 90ft. mechanics. Pete Booth

Warren I beleive we all have our own horror stories. I have been there As you are well aware do not combat the situation by having it stick with you all game long. It's no different then calling a 2-2 pitch a ball in which afterwards you said to yourself " I called it to quickly it was a strike" and then the next pitch is "jacked out of the park" It happens we are human. Players also make mistakes as do coaches. The unfortunate part is that umpires mistakes are magnified. Just look at ESPN when an umpire kicks a call. After ESPN gets done one would think this umpire committed armagedon. The important part is: 1. You KNEW whose call it was 2. Knew you kicked it 3. Did not throw your partner under the bus for YOUR error 4. most likely took some heat from the coach 5. Time to move on Pete Booth

Michael I agree if the particpants use wood. When they use metal I give the same on both sides. Pete Booth

Be careful about the jewelry part. I realize you are talking Cal Ripken but other leagues such as Legion CBL (Collegiate wood bat) and other adult leagues have no such requirement. Here's how it goes at least for summer ball. Find out who the head coaches are ahead of time so you do not waste time 1. Payment - No pay no play (I realize this varies around the country but in my area we are paid at the plate UNLESS it's a tournament in which case our assignor pays us.) 2. Intros 3. Skip take us around 4. Discuss any Special Ground rules 5. Any Special "House Rules" that we need to be aware of NOTE: From my experience it's virtually impossible to keep up with all the various special rules each different league has. Therefore, if there are CR's CBO (also what happens using CBO if a player gets injured) etc. 6. Teams properly equipped It's time to play. The Plate conference should not be a thesis , rules clinic etc. It should only take about 3-5 minutes tops. Pete Booth