stl_ump

So if there is an attempted tag and it misses you aren't supposed to signal "safe"? Just do nothing?

So true! It looks like that guy who's never seen or heard of baseball is just going to have to believe us.

No problem. As I've stated, I know it's a foul ball. But I 'm one of those types of people that "needs" the reason for something in black and white. And maybe in this case this is where the book isn't crystal clear. At least for me anyway. Thanks

But it doesn't. It talks about a "rebound" in the case of a foul tip. It talks about what a line drive is - sharp and direct - which we have here. It talks about a fly ball which we don't have here. If you had never seen baseball or knew nothing of it and I said "the batter swings and the ball is hit sharp and direct in foul territory and it bounces off a player but is then caught it is an out. .. Except if it's the catcher" How could you explain this exception, by the book, why it's a foul ball? Remember, your answer has to come from the book. Or the MLBUM.

Oh no... sorry if it came across like that. What I'm seeking is a definitive answer as to why is one an out and the other a foul ball. By the eye test we all can see the difference between the two but I was just curious if there was a way to prove, by the book, that they are different. If you were going to explain to someone who had never seen baseball and they were to ask the same question. We couldn't point out in the book that it says this type of batted ball is an out but this type of batted ball is a foul ball.

That's a good start at least... **But how about the definition of a line drive? That also says "sharp and direct" So by definition this could be down the 1st base line or back towards the catcher. **

Just an FYI but as stated I'm NOT talking about a foul tip scenario.

I agree it's exception but it's not stated anywhere that it Is an exception.

See definition of a line drive. Why doesn't this apply to the catcher? A LINE DRIVE is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to a fielder without touching the ground. And just for the record, I agree that it is a foul ball but trying to see if there is a way differentiate it based on what's in the book.

So are you saying a ball fouled back to the catcher and off his head was NOT a ball "in flight"? A line drive isn't considered a fly ball (by definition) and it seems to me the definition of a Line Drive meets the criteria whether it goes back to the catcher or down the line to F3. A LINE DRIVE is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to a fielder without touching the ground

But wait guys... I'm not talking about a foul tip. Let just say for the sake of consistency the balls goes off the catchers head / mask and goes up in the air and he catches it as it comes back down. Line drive (not a pop up) goes down the 1st base line and F3 misplays it and it goes off his head (in foul territory) up in the air and he catches it. And STKJOCK... why does it matter if it goes directly back to F2 and off his head or directly down the first base line and directly off the head of F3?

But that's my point... neither of these applies as to why one is a catch and one is a foul ball. The situations are identical. The ball is deflected and then caught. It's in foul territory when deflected. And both players are in foul territory when the deflection occurs.

That's some pretty lose dirt to get all the way up to your face from way down there. Unless you are really really short.

A fellow umpire and I were chatting and throwing out various scenarios and here's one we came up with that I couldn't figure out the "why" part of the answer. Foul ball goes off the catchers knee / mask / some part of him and goes up in the air and it comes back down and it is caught. Doesn't matter, because as soon as it hits him in foul territory it is a foul ball. Next we have a ball hit down the first base line, in foul territory, that is deflected up in the air by F3, who is also in foul territory, and it comes back down and he catches it. We have an out. Both situations are the same, ball is touched in foul territory by players in foul territory but one is an out and one is a foul ball. Why?

If I understand what you are saying is that even after a deflection the fielder still has the "right of way" but if the ball hits the runner it's nothing? Thanks (I blew that one)

OBR, R1 Line drive bounces off pitcher and is heading to F4. R1 runs into (unintentionally) F4 as he is going for the ball. Interference or nothing since it deflected off the pitcher? Thanks

"and almost simultaneously"... to me that sounds like it is all happening at once. I'd need two separate "events" to rule a HBP. Otherwise I'm going with a simultaneous occurrence of these two things.

A small point of contention on this statement... I don't believe enforcing the rules is ever taking something away from someone. A player hits a home run and misses a base during his home run trot. The miss is appealed and we call the out. We enforce the rules. The BR did it to himself.

A few years ago I brain cramped a call that was rule related and had nothing to do with judgement. The two 12u travel teams involved were "regulars" at our complex. I made sure to e-mail both teams as to what should have happened so there would be no confusion should this play happen again. I received email back from both coaches. This was from the coach who the call went against. "I'm watching you, you are watching the boys and the boys are watching all of us, parents included. The players must learn how to argue a point without incident, on and off the field. I think they saw a good example of that last night. After the game, I spoke with the boys and several made comments about the call. I explained that you admitted to your mistake and it takes an honorable man to admit such a thing. The boys clearly got the message, especially after I had to admit I made a coaching error by having a player bunt with 2 outs. Live and learn, the best we can do is to try and limit our repeated mistakes. Although this is 'Just Little League Baseball', it is a big deal to those involved and I appreciate you treating it as such. I will pass along your comments to the boys and parents. I promise you, I harbor no hard feelings in this matter." This was from the coach who benefited from the call "Awesome. Thanks for the follow up. That's very humble and professional of you. I actually thought you were just feeling sorry for us since we were playing so poorly :-)."

Another reason for it... Bad pitch (way high / inside) and it's obviously a ball to all who have eyes. During the batters attempt to get out of the way the ball "tips" off his bat. You call him out without the "tip" mechanic and there will probably be some discussion, if not worse. And here's the same question asked waaaaay back when by me. 2013

...or that a runner stealing on a foul tip had to go back since it was a "foul ball" Had that one too.

Is this a reply to my semi off topic question?

In a semi related question... OBR - Batter drops the bat after an uncaught 3rd strike and the bat (unintentionally) hits the ball. Nothing?

Well I'll ask... what is "the hybrid position"?

So how did we get to Plate shoes? Looking for field shoes.